30 May 2005 07:20:36
Dot
National Trails Day

A couple people have commented on lack of trail races "near" them (not
sure how "near" that has to be). Not sure how other areas work it, but
most races in Alaska that include running (or something resembling it)
are usually in one statewide schedule. There's a few that may not be on
that schedule for whatever reason. Sometimes just being around other
trail runners or trail users will bring to light some less known races.
Or if there's others near you with similar thoughts, maybe you could
start your own race.

One place to look for other trail users that might be wishing there were
a local race is a National Trails Day event near you - Sat June 4 this
year. Usually these are workdays, sometimes just a
come-out-and-use-the-trail get together, sometimes races, barbeques,
etc. And chances are there's Trail Day events not on the national
calendar but near you. You might check with local parks - city, borough
/ county, state, federal, nature centers, etc. Yea, some are clueless,
but some are strong advocates of such activities. Trail races are one
way nature centers raise some funds and make people more aware of their
programs.

Events
http://www.americanhiking.org/events/ntd/events.html

Background
http://www.americanhiking.org/events/ntd/faq.html
"the report recommended that all Americans be able to go out their front
doors and within fifteen minutes, be on trails that wind through their
cities, towns or villages and bring them back without retracing steps."

We also have multiple-use trail groups that provide TLC for a number of
the trails. Many trail runners are in those. I couldn't find a running
club, but I found runners in these other groups. Most people here are
multple use within themselves. And sometimes just chatting with people
at the trailhead or along the way, I've learned about other trails,
proposed races, etc.

We only have one local (15 min drive) summer trail race and one mountain
race where I am, and right now have to go to Anchorage area (3/4 to 1.5
hr 1-way drive). But there's such a demand for trail races and mountain
races - *and* there's some dynamite people that are willing to be RD's -
that the number is increasing yearly. Some people just have the ability
to make things happen. Some races support scholarships for xc ski teams;
others support nature centers; some other charities. Most of the races
I've done have been less than 4 yr old when I first did them.

Long-winded way of saying maybe it's a matter of looking around more or
starting one.

Dot
shameless plug for trails, but NFI

--

"To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high."
- From "In Flanders Fields" by John McCrae



30 May 2005 12:33:17
Tony
Re: National Trails Day

Dot wrote in message
<89zme.265570$cg1.246145@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >...
>A couple people have commented on lack of trail races "near" them (not
>sure how "near" that has to be). Not sure how other areas work it, but
>most races in Alaska that include running (or something resembling it)
>are usually in one statewide schedule. There's a few that may not be on
>that schedule for whatever reason. Sometimes just being around other
>trail runners or trail users will bring to light some less known races.
>Or if there's others near you with similar thoughts, maybe you could
>start your own race.

Actually there are a great deal of trail races here in the Northeast. I
think I'm just jealous that in California they seem to be much more local
for those that live in the LA and SF areas. In the Northeast, you can do a
lot of races, but you'll be driving more than a few hours both ways. For an
event you really want to do this isn't an issue; it becomes a weekend
outing.

In contrast, there are far more orienteering events, mainly in the Spring
and Fall around the NYC area, easily drivable to on event day. I may get
back into that, but it's a different beast than trail running. I've thought
about starting a trail race in my area and will talk to some of in the local
road runners club about that.

The transition from road running to trail running is difficult in many
places in the Northeast because the terrain is so much rougher, for the most
part we have very rocky, very hilly singletrack. Thus drawing local
road-oriented runners might be difficult. Also, the authorities in more
metropoliten areas might worry about trail over-use and erosion if they
allow races on them. They tend to over-regulate everything around here. I'll
scout race locations and ask around. I do think there would be enough
interest.

>One place to look for other trail users that might be wishing there were
>a local race is a National Trails Day event near you - Sat June 4 this
>year. Usually these are workdays, sometimes just a
>come-out-and-use-the-trail get together, sometimes races, barbeques,
>etc. And chances are there's Trail Day events not on the national
>calendar but near you. You might check with local parks - city, borough
>/ county, state, federal, nature centers, etc. Yea, some are clueless,
>but some are strong advocates of such activities. Trail races are one
>way nature centers raise some funds and make people more aware of their
>programs.
>
>Events
>http://www.americanhiking.org/events/ntd/events.html
>
>Background
>http://www.americanhiking.org/events/ntd/faq.html
>"the report recommended that all Americans be able to go out their front
>doors and within fifteen minutes, be on trails that wind through their
>cities, towns or villages and bring them back without retracing steps."
>
>We also have multiple-use trail groups that provide TLC for a number of
>the trails. Many trail runners are in those. I couldn't find a running
>club, but I found runners in these other groups. Most people here are
>multple use within themselves. And sometimes just chatting with people
>at the trailhead or along the way, I've learned about other trails,
>proposed races, etc.
>
>We only have one local (15 min drive) summer trail race and one mountain
>race where I am, and right now have to go to Anchorage area (3/4 to 1.5
>hr 1-way drive). But there's such a demand for trail races and mountain
>races - *and* there's some dynamite people that are willing to be RD's -
>that the number is increasing yearly. Some people just have the ability
>to make things happen. Some races support scholarships for xc ski teams;
>others support nature centers; some other charities. Most of the races
>I've done have been less than 4 yr old when I first did them.
>
>Long-winded way of saying maybe it's a matter of looking around more or
>starting one.

In my area it might be worth trying to organize group trail runs first to
poll the interest.

-Tony

>Dot
>shameless plug for trails, but NFI
>
>--
>
>"To you from failing hands we throw
>The torch; be yours to hold it high."
>- From "In Flanders Fields" by John McCrae
>




30 May 2005 14:31:12
Phil M.
Re: National Trails Day

qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com wrote:

> Actually there are a great deal of trail races here in the Northeast.
> I think I'm just jealous that in California they seem to be much more
> local for those that live in the LA and SF areas.

Exactly! That's why I mentioned in another post about planning a race
around visiting my sister in California. She is very close to a lot of the
"Pacific Coast Trail Runs" events http://www.pctrailruns.com.These look to
be very informal (which is fine). And you can usually pick your distance
from 15K to 50 mile.

> you can do a lot of races, but you'll be driving more than a few hours
> both ways. For an event you really want to do this isn't an issue; it
> becomes a weekend outing.

This is where I draw the line. I'll consider events up to 100 miles. More
if it is an important event (Boston, etc.). Or try to work it around family
reunions, etc.

--
Phil M.


30 May 2005 14:37:42
Phil M.
Re: National Trails Day

dot.h@#duh?att.net wrote:

> A couple people have commented on lack of trail races "near" them (not
> sure how "near" that has to be).

Personally, I'll consider events that are up to 100 miles away or if it
looks really interesting or has rave reviews I'll push it to 200.

[...]

> One place to look for other trail users that might be wishing there were
> a local race is a National Trails Day event near you

[...]

Thanks for the tip. This looks hopeful.

[...]

> http://www.americanhiking.org/events/ntd/events.html

--
Phil M.


30 May 2005 08:33:39
Re: National Trails Day

I LOVE national tail day, but we usually celebrate it on the first sat
night of July. I guess the tradition is subject to local dates.



30 May 2005 12:14:05
Re: National Trails Day

And we celebrate by getting all the tail we can in one day.



30 May 2005 20:03:47
Dot
Re: National Trails Day

Tony wrote:

> Dot wrote in message
> <89zme.265570$cg1.246145@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>>A couple people have commented on lack of trail races "near" them (not
>>sure how "near" that has to be). Not sure how other areas work it, but
>>most races in Alaska that include running (or something resembling it)
>>are usually in one statewide schedule. There's a few that may not be on
>>that schedule for whatever reason. Sometimes just being around other
>>trail runners or trail users will bring to light some less known races.
>>Or if there's others near you with similar thoughts, maybe you could
>>start your own race.
>
>
> Actually there are a great deal of trail races here in the Northeast.

That's why I was surprised to read your original comment. I thought you
weren't too far from Doug and I thought Doug was near a bunch of trail
races, but not snowshoe races. New York (not NYC, I'm thinking it's
central eastern? - Catskills to Albany?) and western Mass are two areas
that seem to produce decent trail runners, and I presumed had fair amt
of trail races near them. Maybe my geography is messed up but I'm
thinking Dave Dunham, Nikki Kimball (now in Montana), and some others
whose names escape me at moment.

I
> think I'm just jealous that in California they seem to be much more local
> for those that live in the LA and SF areas. In the Northeast, you can do a
> lot of races, but you'll be driving more than a few hours both ways.

I'll have to admit that the 5- to 6-hr drive to decent backpacking
places (Adirondacks or Shenandoah and some places in between) most
weekends was a drag when I lived entirely too close to NYC for my taste.
And we rarely went to Whites or Greens cuz of traffic. The 55-mph speed
limit (including across midwestern states) imposed about 1974 was what
drove me to quit my job and move west, then north.

I think the later-developed regions are more likely to have planned for
green space and trails, although New York at one time was a leader in
preserving green space, like the Ads. Right now we're going through a
lot of growing pains with increased development and trying to save
trails. Fortunately, most of our local governments (city, borough) are
very supportive. There's still a lot of people here that are opposed to
zoning, though.


>
> The transition from road running to trail running is difficult in many
> places in the Northeast because the terrain is so much rougher, for the most
> part we have very rocky, very hilly singletrack.

Are there fire or other dirt roads around? The area closest to where I
am has a lot of old logging and mining roads on reasonable terrain, then
our single-track mountain trails at 20-30% slopes. Anchorage has a lot
of urban trails, but they're next door to huge state park and that's
abutted by a national forest, so I think they have more single track
than we have, but we're expanding.


Thus drawing local
> road-oriented runners might be difficult. Also, the authorities in more
> metropoliten areas might worry about trail over-use and erosion if they
> allow races on them. They tend to over-regulate everything around here.

They may be over-regulating, but trail carrying capacity is a very real
issue. This is why trail races usually have caps ranging from about 20
to 300 runners, usually in the 100-200 range - at least around here. I
know how badly eroded the heavily used trails in the Adirondacks were in
the late 1960s. That said, some trails can handle a lot of traffic, and
some can be designed and/or built to handle traffic.

Some of our local wet or heavily used areas are being "hardened" with
geoblock. Corduroy is on some older trails. More trails are being built
to relieve the pressure in heavily used areas. Around here, at least for
now, we've got very agreeable local governments and a few core volunteer
leaders that can say, "let's fix or build this trail this weekend" and
volunteers show up. (Sometimes a couple people are more effective than
committee doing the work.) But we still have some near-sighted (blind?)
entities to deal with also, unfortunately.


>
> In my area it might be worth trying to organize group trail runs first to
> poll the interest.
>

Sounds like a plan! Maybe several others are having same thoughts. Good
luck.

Dot

--

"To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high."
- From "In Flanders Fields" by John McCrae



30 May 2005 20:06:42
Dot
Re: National Trails Day

Phil M. wrote:

> dot.h@#duh?att.net wrote:
>
>
>>A couple people have commented on lack of trail races "near" them (not
>>sure how "near" that has to be).
>
>
> Personally, I'll consider events that are up to 100 miles away or if it
> looks really interesting or has rave reviews I'll push it to 200.
>

You have a broader range than I ;) Of course, there's mostly open
country much beyond 50-60 miles from where I am.

> [...]
>
>
>>One place to look for other trail users that might be wishing there were
>>a local race is a National Trails Day event near you
>
>
> [...]
>
> Thanks for the tip. This looks hopeful.
>
Good luck. NTD last year is where I finally hooked up with one group and
found several others after that.

Dot

--

"To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high."
- From "In Flanders Fields" by John McCrae



30 May 2005 21:28:47
Dot
Re: National Trails Day

I should've included this link. While this is in Anchorage, it's typical
of the trail scene in these parts with willing landowners. The funniest
thing about the article is that it's so true.
http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/6547717p-6429975c.html



31 May 2005 13:26:11
Doug Freese
Re: National Trails Day


"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net > wrote in message
news:DkKme.860004$w62.661819@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> That's why I was surprised to read your original comment. I thought
> you weren't too far from Doug and I thought Doug was near a bunch of
> trail races, but not snowshoe races.

We have many races albeit 50 or under if I draw a 150 mile radius to
include snow shoe. I don't mind the travel for a significan length race
but to drive two houres for a 5k snowshoe race is more than I want(if I
shoed). Western Mass has lots of snow shoe events in most years.

New York (not NYC, I'm thinking it's
> central eastern? - Catskills to Albany?) and western Mass are two
> areas that seem to produce decent trail runners, and I presumed had
> fair amt of trail races near them. Maybe my geography is messed up but
> I'm thinking Dave Dunham, Nikki Kimball (now in Montana), and some
> others whose names escape me at moment.

Tons of them. The finger lakes region is another area that has some
frequent races and reasonable distance selection.

>> The transition from road running to trail running is difficult in
>> many
>> places in the Northeast because the terrain is so much rougher, for
>> the most
>> part we have very rocky, very hilly singletrack.

And they don't believe in switchbacks. Snap the chalk line, mark the
trees and call it a trail. ;)
>
> Are there fire or other dirt roads around?

Very, few. If it's dirt it is a converted rail line and flat and
boring.

Off to get my club's newsletter out. A real PITA when I have to collect
three weeks of data in a few days. Too much vacation during my
retirement. Woe is me. :)

-DougF




31 May 2005 13:27:40
Doug Freese
Re: National Trails Day


"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net > wrote in message
news:mnKme.860016$w62.258634@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> You have a broader range than I ;) Of course, there's mostly open
> country much beyond 50-60 miles from where I am.

Open? Don't you mean uninhabited by man? :)
-Doug




31 May 2005 16:03:42
Tony
Re: National Trails Day

Dot wrote in message ...
>Tony wrote:
>> Dot wrote in message
>............<
>> think I'm just jealous that in California they seem to be much more local
>> for those that live in the LA and SF areas. In the Northeast, you can do
a
>> lot of races, but you'll be driving more than a few hours both ways.
>
>I'll have to admit that the 5- to 6-hr drive to decent backpacking
>places (Adirondacks or Shenandoah and some places in between) most
>weekends was a drag when I lived entirely too close to NYC for my taste.
>And we rarely went to Whites or Greens cuz of traffic. The 55-mph speed
>limit (including across midwestern states) imposed about 1974 was what
>drove me to quit my job and move west, then north.

Wise move. That's the thing, traffic sucks, so while it's fine to travel for
your real goal events, there just arent many interim races you can get to
easily. Let's face is Dan and the other CA trail people are lucky.

>I think the later-developed regions are more likely to have planned for
>green space and trails, although New York at one time was a leader in
>preserving green space, like the Ads. Right now we're going through a
>lot of growing pains with increased development and trying to save
>trails. Fortunately, most of our local governments (city, borough) are
>very supportive. There's still a lot of people here that are opposed to
>zoning, though.

The northeast and NYC area actually does have a lot of green spaces... err
rocky green spaces, but not many wild spaces.

>> The transition from road running to trail running is difficult in many
>> places in the Northeast because the terrain is so much rougher, for the
most
>> part we have very rocky, very hilly singletrack.
>
>Are there fire or other dirt roads around? The area closest to where I
>am has a lot of old logging and mining roads on reasonable terrain, then
>our single-track mountain trails at 20-30% slopes. Anchorage has a lot
>of urban trails, but they're next door to huge state park and that's
>abutted by a national forest, so I think they have more single track
>than we have, but we're expanding.

As Doug said, sadly no. Rail-to-trails yes, some dirt roads in the state
parks, but often they're almost as rugged as the single track. In wild
places, dirt roads follow the flattest contours possible, making them great
for easy long runs. In developed areas, all those flat dirt roads are now
main paved roads and all that's left is the highlands.

-Tony




01 Jun 2005 06:31:57
Dot
Re: National Trails Day

Doug Freese wrote:

>Too much vacation during my
> retirement. Woe is me. :)
>
I hear ya ;)

Dot
30 and counting

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog




01 Jun 2005 06:34:30
Dot
Re: National Trails Day

Doug Freese wrote:

> "Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
> news:mnKme.860016$w62.258634@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>>You have a broader range than I ;) Of course, there's mostly open
>>country much beyond 50-60 miles from where I am.
>
>
> Open? Don't you mean uninhabited by man? :)
> -Doug
>
>
Wise guy ;) Actually, that was just along the road system. Once I go
east of Lazy (5 mi away), there's nothing (maybe fly-in hunting camps?
and the route for a fast-packing trip some of the ultra runners are
doing this summer - no escape routes) for quite a ways. There's a few
small towns along road northeast of me, but no races that direction yet
(one ultra up there one winter, Iditasports' last hurrah, iirc). 50
miles gets me to south side of Anchorage, and 70-80 miles gets me to
Girdwood (outer distance for most mountain races and one snowshoe race).

Ironically, other than our local 5k trail and Mat Peak Challenge, the
Iditarod Trail Invitational is probably the easiest race for me to get
to, assuming roads are plowed.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog




01 Jun 2005 10:56:40
Doug Freese
Re: National Trails Day


"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net > wrote in message
news:xDcne.869146$w62.174934@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Doug Freese wrote:
>
>>Too much vacation during my retirement. Woe is me. :)
>>
> I hear ya ;)
>
> Dot
> 30 and counting

Just think, being able to put a training plan in place with out
factoring in field work.

-Doug




01 Jun 2005 08:01:57
Tom Wheeler
Re: National Trails Day

july 4 is a week of church camp north of port huron. the great lake
state ....the bottom of the lake on the right side...Michigan...
For me any ways...... over a 100 miles from here each way......
this week wlll take to the trees. maybe with my new idea....on a
hammock.......design.
the night life animals are throne to say the least.......and in the
jungle with no moon........predator 1 and 2 come to mind in my waders
and life vest to travel root on my mountain bike or racer...... might
send pack up with friend and travel like the predator........
hay anyone cut the boot off of wadders and make a shoe that
one can chase in.. running shoes ...righttttttttttttttt...........
God bless u.s.a......
Mind you.I don't care n more.......2 years 7 month no job or
unemployment. no money in come at all for me anyways.............. 1 of
the economy desire group I am
.because the more I try to find work the deeper they bury me it
seems.......It is like I am monitor and well a news event to out do
what ever I write or do.......by everyones same opinion on what I
do....... I Know....Like this helps...there is all ways a
reason.....beach open.......as long as they have a job and a paycheck..
oh every one has been thru this here you no.........I am fine........and
can still be me......

this place is booming in house building more land making drive way
such......and I can't get 1 person to help......any ways like
said....bury me...........is all........
I am free....ad of corse. they all do this for me.
What a crop of crap..a zillon resume and application and evan inter
views. and I got shit....... sept life and nature...............