30 Nov 2007 13:28:53
travisgod@aol.cominyrface
Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

How much more peaceful can you get?

Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
was this bizarre.

I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.

Trav


30 Nov 2007 21:46:31
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:28:53 -0800 (PST), "travisgod@aol.cominyrface"
<travisgod@aol.com > wrote:

>How much more peaceful can you get?
>
>Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
>that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
>was this bizarre.
>
>I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
>up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
>do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.

they would if they could. It's just that they screwed up and didn't
get their theocracy in America like they wanted. Those damned
liberals banned time honored traditions like burning people alive at
the stake for speaking out against the church. The only difference
between Muslims and Christians is the Muslims managed to keep the
liberals out of politics.

Hal

>
>Trav



30 Nov 2007 13:48:51
Pierre Honeyman
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Nov 30, 1:46 pm, h...@nospam.org wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:28:53 -0800 (PST), "travis...@aol.cominyrface"
>
> <travis...@aol.com> wrote:
> >How much more peaceful can you get?
>
> >Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
> >that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
> >was this bizarre.
>
> >I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
> >up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
> >do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>
> they would if they could. It's just that they screwed up and didn't
> get their theocracy in America like they wanted. Those damned
> liberals banned time honored traditions like burning people alive at
> the stake for speaking out against the church. The only difference
> between Muslims and Christians is the Muslims managed to keep the
> liberals out of politics.

Hal, your a moron.

Pierre


30 Nov 2007 17:49:33
travisgod@aol.cominyrface
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Nov 30, 4:46 pm, h...@nospam.org wrote:
> they would if they could. It's just that they screwed up and didn't
> get their theocracy in America like they wanted. Those damned
> liberals banned time honored traditions like burning people alive at
> the stake for speaking out against the church. The only difference
> between Muslims and Christians is the Muslims managed to keep the
> liberals out of politics.
>
> Hal

You're a fucking idiot. There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.

Not here, not in the Catholic world, nowhere.

The so-called liberals you speak of went to Christian churches. And
they owned slaves and believed in the death penalty and prayer in
schools.

Trav


30 Nov 2007 21:02:30
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

hal@nospam.org wrote:

>
> they would if they could. It's just that they screwed up and didn't
> get their theocracy in America like they wanted.

No you idiot. They.... themselves, created that .. and you, and yours,
enslaved 150 millions, slaughtered them, and jerk off to the thrill of
doing it some more..
So when the idiot muslims parade around the Sudan, with swords
threatening to kill a middle aged school teacher, who's care of little
schoolchildren, who hadn't as yet been properly propagandized by their
elders, and asked what they would like to name the teddy bear- chose
'Mohammed' for it's name, then got the teacher to be threatened with 'death'
And thrown in jail for 15 days.

Of course the 400,000 enlaved, fucked, black african christian and
animist children, who were raped, tortured, tormented, by that same
government and religion....well, you liberal, enanble them to engage
their 'freedoms.'

The only difference
> between Muslims and Christians is the Muslims managed to keep the
> liberals out of politics.

The difference is you want to ennable enslavement again... and prevent
the torturers from being stopped.


30 Nov 2007 21:15:50
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

travisgod@aol.cominyrface wrote:

> How much more peaceful can you get?
>
> Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
> that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
> was this bizarre.

And yet... it is not caricature, but the reality of Islam. It is what
Mohammed exacted and what his compatriots did.

Here is Fitzgerald writing about the 'incident'

Mind you, this degrading nation that took 400,000 christian and animist
women and children, in the name of Islam, forcibly raping them, forcibly
converting them, and the world stands by while these scumbags dance and
preen with their swords in the streets in their horseshit anger at 'insult'.


"...That victim in this case is a 54-year-old schoolteacher who, newly
arrived in Sudan and naive as so many are about Islam, meets with the
primitive nature of Islam.

"For we can all recognize and instantly grasp, the teacher's innocence,
just as we could all see the innocence of those Bulgarian nurses held
for eight years by the Libyans, raped and tortured and threatened
repeatedly with execution. And we know the story, of how she allowed her
little seven-year-old charges to vote on the name they wanted to give
the little teddy bear, little seven-year-old Muslim children not yet
sufficiently brainwashed into every element of Islam, just the way some
of the younger children, the American soldiers in Iraq have found, are
still....still touchingly sweet, human, recognizable in their behavior,
even genuinely friendly and grateful.

"But just give those children a little time, a little more socializing
into Islam, a few more years learning from their elders, and soon enough
they will learn to be otherwise. They will learn to be like their elders
are now, shifty, meretricious, hostile to those American soldiers
handing them candy, soccer balls, whatever else those American soldiers,
Thidwicks on the Tigris, are in the business of handing out."

"The innocence of this lady was also the innocence of Daniel Pearl, who
was ignorant of Islam and Muslims though he had written about Muslims,
and had grown up in a family with a mother who recalled, a bit too
nostalgically, stories about her life in Baghdad as a Jew. (She left
Baghdad as a small child, and no doubt the stories were those of her
parents, who remembered only the good, at the very time when, because of
the British and the aftermath of the British presence, Jews in Baghdad
had temporarily flourished or, later, had at least been left alone --
until the "Farhud" of June 1-2, 1941, when hundreds were killed.) Pearl
was unschooled in Islam and too trusting. And then there was that young
American boy, who grew up in a household with a father of the far left,
who was sure everyone in the world was fine, save possibly American
right-wing capitalists, and gave his son the same terminally naive
worldview. That son, Michael Berg, flew up, on his own, mind you, to
Iraq to "help" the "people of Iraq" in building up their country. And
for his pains, he was decapitated, to shouts of Allahu Akbar, on camera."

"The schoolteacher in Khartoum taught not in a primitive village, but in
a school for the children of Western diplomats and of the Sudanese elite
-- akin to the American School in Kuwait City and other such schools,
especially Christian-run schools, all over the Muslim world. The Muslim
elite of course is eager to send its children to such schools,
recognizing that schools run, say, by Jesuits in Baghdad, or nuns in
Pakistan, are likely to provide an education far superior to any offered
by a Muslim-run school. That eagerness to have one's own children attend
schools run by Americans or Europeans, often Catholic schools, and then
to attend university in the West, does not translate into any
recognition that something must be wrong with Islam and societies
suffused with Islam -- and only the denial of such possibilities will
force Muslims to begin to think in those terms, as they should, as we
must create the conditions that will force them to do so."

"The poor lady is no doubt very upset. But the case, from the viewpoint
of Infidels, and the close-up look at the behavior of those screaming
crowds calling for her death -- that is good, that is useful. That is
the kind of thing Western television, which does not know how to cover
something unseen -- the texts and tenets of Islam -- will be sure to cover."

Very welcome.

The Teddy Bear Incident.

It's like "Perdicaris Alive or Raisuli Dead." There is an individual
life at stake -- the life of someone with whom all of us can identify,
and whom none of us can fault. We might, any one of us, in the West,
have asked our seven-year-old charges to "name that bear." We might,
sweetly, have thought -- "Muhammad is the name of three-quarters of the
kids in the class, so why not let them name the bear Muhammad?"

We might. Once. But not now. Now we hear the screams for death and won't
forget them. We know that the ludicrous government of an absurd place
called the Sudan has tried and sentenced this lady. We are no longer in
the mood, as we might have been, to take such places seriously. Or at
least, to treat them with any respect. Why should we?



01 Dec 2007 10:27:52
Grimm Riffer
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

<travisgod@aol.com > wrote in message
news:780485c5-441b-427a-a188-f3f9af6cbbc3@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> How much more peaceful can you get?
>
> Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
> that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
> was this bizarre.
>
> I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
> up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
> do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>
> Trav

I remember when, in retaliation for cartoons suggesting that islam is
violent, muslims took to the streets waving placads reading "slay those who
insult islam". I kinda zoned out, lost my place in reality and momentarily
couldn't understand why a work of comedy fiction by Terry Pratchett was on
the BBC news website...




01 Dec 2007 09:11:10
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Grimm Riffer wrote:

>
> I remember when, in retaliation for cartoons suggesting that islam is
> violent, muslims took to the streets waving placads reading "slay those who
> insult islam". I kinda zoned out, lost my place in reality and momentarily
> couldn't understand why a work of comedy fiction by Terry Pratchett was on
> the BBC news website...
>
>

Try to imagin what it was like, back in 622 AD in the town of Yathrib, a
town founded by jews who had fled the babylonia invasion 900 yrs before,
and others who had come to live in the desolate arabian peninsula
similarly, after the roman destruction of Israel.
Yathrib was a town of some 30,000 jews, and arabs all of whom lived
there, and there is no evidence of any arab tribes ever having left
arabia to conquer any other tribes outside of arabia.

The jews there were literate. The arabs weren't, and the jews were
leather merchants, farmers, and those who made metal ( I think )
vestments forthe arab tribes. They sold stories of the Torah and Talmud
to one, Mohammed, who later came back with his failed cult to invade
their town, exile them and later steal everything from him and everyone
else. The other arab tribes, their leaders were allies with the jewish
tribes and berated Mo' for his treatment of them, they who had been
their allies, and his own behavior and so, he later killed them too.

The stories of the time- of his deceit, of his viciousness, and his
destruction of all the tribes in his way, were likely seen much as you
saw those cartoons, that you saw as a work of art, a story of
fiction.... But to the people who marched around, killing people,
wanting to kill people, their agenda was long ago fixed as something
that you could not understand, nor believe...

That is our problem. We can't believe they would think this way, let
alone act upon it. Then we tell ourselves that somehow, in some way, we
must have done something to make people want to at in such unbelievably
irrational hateful, murderous ways- since it's not normal for people to
even want to do such. Our's is the currency of guilt. It is false, and
without basis.

The muslims currency, is power. And.... it is that simple.


Mark


01 Dec 2007 09:14:11
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Mark Goldberg wrote:

> Grimm Riffer wrote:
>
>>
>> I remember when, in retaliation for cartoons suggesting that islam is
>> violent, muslims took to the streets waving placads reading "slay
>> those who insult islam". I kinda zoned out, lost my place in reality
>> and momentarily couldn't understand why a work of comedy fiction by
>> Terry Pratchett was on the BBC news website...
>>
>
> Try to imagin what it was like, back in 622 AD in the town of Yathrib, a
> town founded by jews who had fled the babylonia invasion 900 yrs before,
> and others who had come to live in the desolate arabian peninsula
> similarly, after the roman destruction of Israel.
> Yathrib was a town of some 30,000 jews, and arabs

They had lived together, until the time of Mo' and the declaration of
the religion of 'submission' of all....

That town by the way, that town founded by Jews,900 yrs before, was then
after the theft, tyrannizing and exil of it's founders and inhabitants,
who by the way, were unarmed, and defenseless, and who posed no threat
in any way.... was later called

Medina.


Mark


01 Dec 2007 16:24:58
Don Wagner
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

"travisgod@aol.cominyrface" <travisgod@aol.com > wrote:
>There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
>met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.

Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
similar.
--Don--
Last Day
Capricorn 15
Year of the City 2274
Carousel Begins


01 Dec 2007 10:42:30
Chas
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

"Don Wagner" <dawagner@netcom.com > wrote
>>There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
>>met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
> similar.

True-
but look at the disparity in numbers, both of incidents/victims and
perpetrators.
The fact that similar incidents happen on a microcosmic level is not
mitigation of the blame for a far more common practice.
Further, the Muslims have authoritative references in their holy literature;
Christians aren't instructed to go kill anyone.
And there is some justification in killing an imminent murderer to save the
putative victim. Whether one agrees or not, abortion is seen as a homicide
by many people- and no one ever voted in the permission for abortion. It's
justified by fiat.
Islam has no such imminent threat by some perpetrator, only the condition of
being non-muslim or non-the-right-kind-of-muslim.

Chas




01 Dec 2007 15:52:15
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Don Wagner wrote:

> "travisgod@aol.cominyrface" <travisgod@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
>>met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>
>
> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
> similar.
> --Don--


That act of course, can't compare to wanting to kill anyone who use's a
'name' for a teddy bear...

But in honor of such as hal... here's a better example.
This week, is the anniversary of Stalin's program that killed millions.

-------------


December 01, 2007
Genocide Nearly Forgotten by History
By S. John Massoud

The past week saw the anniversary of one of the great tragedies of
history overlooked by most of the US mainstream media. On November 24th
75 years ago, Stalin announced plans to collectivize all grain from his
people, in an attempt to enforce "true socialism" on the people for
their own good. This Holodomor (forced famine) sentenced millions of
Ukrainians to their deaths.

It amazes me that the mainstream media seem to have missed this day for
whatever reason. Now I am glad that they cover Darfur, and that they
did cover to some degree the 1 million Rwandans killed during the mid
1990's. However at the most, 250,000 Sudanese have been killed in
Darfur, and maybe 800,000 Tutsis and a few thousand more moderate Hutus
were killed, because Kofi Annan ( UN Deputy Secretary for Genocide) and
then-President Bill Clinton refused to do anything.

Estimates for the number of Ukrainians who perished under range anywhere
from 2 million to 10 million. The true number will never be known. The
famed Ukrainian historian Stanislav Kulchitsky has the number closer to
3.5 million. Unfortunately records were not that good at the time.
Most people who were born then and survived do not know their exact age
or birth date.

It began on November 24, 1932, with an order raising the quota for the
state procurement of grain and wound up as an all-out forced
collectivization of agriculture. Ukraine was hit hardest because it was
the breadbasket of the Soviet Union. People were given a "choice": To
leave their land and join a collective farm, or be sent to Siberia.
Most were sent to Siberia or starved under this "workers paradise".

Last month I was in the Ukraine visiting my family, and got to meet my
babushka (Russian Babuchkaword for grandmother), Darina. Darina is in
her 80's and has lived in her little house for her entire life. She was
a little girl when Stalin forced the food production quotas on the
Ukraine people.

Through an interpreter, I asked Darina if she had any memory of Stalin.
And this kindly proud old lady who has toughed through everything that
humanity (The Nazis came through the Ukraine on their way to Stalingrad)
and Mother Nature can throw at a person and survived it, became visibly
frightened and started to shake. So many years after Stalin and the
Soviets left the stage, what they did still terrifies her. She was
unable to speak about it.

Ukrainian President Victor Yushchenko has properly recognized this
forced labor as genocide. So has President Bush and approximately 26
countries of the world. But we must remember what a "workers paradise"
really means: The infliction of pain on the worker for the good of the
government.

From this to Pol Pot to Mao's Cultural Revolution, a government with
too much power will kill its own, in the name of the greater good. 3.5
million Ukrainians would most likely agree with that sentiment.

Page Printed from:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/12/genocide_nearly_forgotten_by_h.html
at December 01, 2007 - 03:47:55 PM EST


01 Dec 2007 18:32:21
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Chas wrote:


> ...The fact that similar incidents happen on a microcosmic level is not
> mitigation of the blame for a far more common practice.
> Further, the Muslims have authoritative references in their holy literature;
> Christians aren't instructed to go kill anyone.
> And there is some justification in killing an imminent murderer to save the
> putative victim. Whether one agrees or not, abortion is seen as a homicide
> by many people- and no one ever voted in the permission for abortion. It's
> justified by fiat.
> Islam has no such imminent threat by some perpetrator, only the condition of
> being non-muslim or non-the-right-kind-of-muslim.

Note the vigorous debate witin those various groups who would be labeled
'fundamentalist' christians, and all others who hold any such views.
There were no mass homicidisms of opponents nor fatwas, nor mass
examples as you indicated. That vigorousness in discussion indicates the
opposite of the closed door homicidism, that has existed across ALL
legal schools of Islam and since the time that Mohammed declared war on
all humanity.

Mark


01 Dec 2007 16:05:22
travisgod@aol.cominyrface
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 1, 11:24 am, dawag...@netcom.com (Don Wagner) wrote:
> "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote:
> >There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
> >met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>
> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
> similar.
> --Don--
> Last Day
> Capricorn 15
> Year of the City 2274
> Carousel Begins

What do we do to people who kill doctors?

We execute them. Bush executes them. The so-called evangelical
President led the most executin state in the union.

Trav


01 Dec 2007 16:11:50
Pierre Honeyman
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 1, 8:24 am, dawag...@netcom.com (Don Wagner) wrote:
> "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote:
> >There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
> >met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>
> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
> similar.

So naming a stuffed toy after a holy figure is the same as actually
killing something? Kind of a weak argument.

Pierre


02 Dec 2007 03:44:59
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:11:50 -0800 (PST), Pierre Honeyman
<pearhed@gmail.com > wrote:

>On Dec 1, 8:24 am, dawag...@netcom.com (Don Wagner) wrote:
>> "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
>> >met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>>
>> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
>> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
>> similar.
>
>So naming a stuffed toy after a holy figure is the same as actually
>killing something? Kind of a weak argument.

killing "something"? Killing "something" is not a crime, we do it
every day.

Hal

>
>Pierre



02 Dec 2007 04:12:51
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:42:30 -0700, "Chas" <chasclements@comcast.net >
wrote:

>"Don Wagner" <dawagner@netcom.com> wrote
>>>There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
>>>met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
>> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
>> similar.
>
>True-
>but look at the disparity in numbers, both of incidents/victims and
>perpetrators.
>The fact that similar incidents happen on a microcosmic level is not
>mitigation of the blame for a far more common practice.
>Further, the Muslims have authoritative references in their holy literature;
>Christians aren't instructed to go kill anyone.

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD
thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the
sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath
gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or
moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ...
Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have
committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that
woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
-- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

>And there is some justification in killing an imminent murderer to save the
>putative victim. Whether one agrees or not, abortion is seen as a homicide
>by many people- and no one ever voted in the permission for abortion. It's
>justified by fiat.
>Islam has no such imminent threat by some perpetrator, only the condition of
>being non-muslim or non-the-right-kind-of-muslim.

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say
to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name
of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother,
shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

>
>Chas
>
>
You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you.
Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they
will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever
conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?'
But don't be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did
to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors
the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own
eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing
power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God
will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the
LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still
hiding from you! "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD
your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD
your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little.
You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild
animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God
will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete
confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your
power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No
one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all.
(Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)

When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter
and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the
Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and
Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When
the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer
them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them
and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let
your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will
lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the
anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you.
(Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)


01 Dec 2007 22:29:35
Chas
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

<hal@nospam.org > wrote
> If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD
> thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the
> sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath
> gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or
> moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ...
> Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have
> committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that
> woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
> -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

That's old testament history, bud- the history of the Israelites over three
thousand years ago.
And, we know god to be authoritative and exacting- no reason to think that
He's not forceful when affronted. He required blood sacrifice to appease His
wrath- that's why Christ died as a gift.
I appreciate it- always wondered why others don't.

> If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say
> to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name
> of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother,
> shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Now you know why prophets were afraid to step forward- they were tested
constantly, and the punishment for lying/making shit up was dire indeed.
That's also why prophecy can be 'trusted'- there were no rewards for being a
prophet, and claiming a word of the Lord was a scary thing indeed.

Chas





02 Dec 2007 00:39:55
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

hal@nospam.org wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:42:30 -0700, "Chas" <chasclements@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>

>>
>>True-
>>but look at the disparity in numbers, both of incidents/victims and
>>perpetrators.
>>The fact that similar incidents happen on a microcosmic level is not
>>mitigation of the blame for a far more common practice.
>>Further, the Muslims have authoritative references in their holy literature;
>>Christians aren't instructed to go kill anyone.
>
>
> If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD
> thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the
> sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath
> gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or
> moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ...
> Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have
> committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that
> woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
> -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

You idiot want to be murderer. These were the words that pertained to no
one else but for those who took those vows... no other nations, no other
peoples, and in no way, a threat to anyone else. Nor did it ever in
history. Unlike what we are referring to you lying rat of an excuse for
a man.

>
>
>>And there is some justification in killing an imminent murderer to save the
>>putative victim. Whether one agrees or not, abortion is seen as a homicide
>>by many people- and no one ever voted in the permission for abortion. It's
>>justified by fiat.
>>Islam has no such imminent threat by some perpetrator, only the condition of
>>being non-muslim or non-the-right-kind-of-muslim.
>
>
> If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say
> to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name
> of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother,
> shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
>

Yes... and again, you lying rat of a whore marxist. This was for those
Jews, and no one else. Had no bearing on any other peoples, or any other
nation. This for the false prophets, who dared to play at their
hallucinations. And it meant that no one dared play that game.
Instructive indeed, because Mo' was indeed an utterly false prophet. He
had no prophecy, and he, unlike all the other 54 other prophets who's
words and advice, pertained to future generations, and were thus
included, unlike others who's prophecy was only for their present days,
and not included amongst the prophets to be recorded, had the same
message... and they were all literate, unlike Mohammed, who claimed as
an illiterate man, who got it all screwed up, history, people, dates,
times, and ideas, that his was the final, and only message for ALL or
ELSE and that is what a whore like you hides from. Because you like the
destruction and you like the lies, and you are one ton of sleezy lying
bullshit hatred, floating like a turd in every thread you enter.

>
> You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you.
> Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they
> will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever
> conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?'
> But don't be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did
> to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors
> the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own
> eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing
> power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God
> will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the
> LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still
> hiding from you! "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD
> your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD
> your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little.
> You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild
> animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God
> will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete
> confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your
> power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No
> one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all.
> (Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)
>
> When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter
> and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the
> Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and
> Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When
> the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer
> them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them
> and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let
> your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will
> lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the
> anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you.
> (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)

Yep... that was the only place on the earth that they were to claim, for
the practice of their religion. And to live in peace everywhere else
upon the earth and claim no ownership other than to be citizens at peace
within those nations and loyal to them as their citizens.

you of course, ignored that Mo' said they Jews lied, that 'Allah' ( the
moon-god, one of 360 gods that he made the most powerful god ) ordered
them to conquer all of the world, everywhere and that any place a
'muslim's' feet trod, was forever forbidden to be owned by 'infidels'.

And that was the difference, the main, most obvious one, that you like
the sleezy whore you are, ignored. Yes, the Temple of Solomen, had
specific services for all the nations of the earth to be blessed- but
never forced to convert, never forced to hand over their lands, or their
beliefs.

You are a whore. A coward, A two bit marxist hate freak. And you should
always remind others of your desire to have rma'ers become muslims since
it was as you asserted, 'a successful warrior religion'.

Mark


02 Dec 2007 00:43:24
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

hal@nospam.org wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:11:50 -0800 (PST), Pierre Honeyman
> <pearhed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Dec 1, 8:24 am, dawag...@netcom.com (Don Wagner) wrote:
>>
>>>"travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
>>>>met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>>>
>>>Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
>>>killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
>>>similar.
>>
>>So naming a stuffed toy after a holy figure is the same as actually
>>killing something? Kind of a weak argument.
>
>
> killing "something"? Killing "something" is not a crime, we do it
> every day.
>

That would be you dimwit, killing facts, killing honor, killing honesty,
and killing any truths... except that your a worthless braindead skunk.

You... should be made to live in the Sudan. Forever.


02 Dec 2007 13:20:24
Greendistantstar
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!


<travisgod@aol.com > wrote in message
news:780485c5-441b-427a-a188-f3f9af6cbbc3@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> How much more peaceful can you get?
>
> Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
> that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
> was this bizarre.
>
> I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
> up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
> do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>
> Trav

And see now how they run....

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22858873-5005961,00.html

--
GDS

"Let's roll!"




02 Dec 2007 09:08:06
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

hal@nospam.org wrote:

>
> If there be found among you, within any of thy gates ...
>

After noting the specificity to specific tribes, in a specific place, at
a certain time....ie, no other's and at no other times- look at Mo's
call to destroy over the entire earth, the entire world, all the
people's, and to submit them all. And there was to be no discussion.
The acts above brought forth enormous discussion and documentation in
the Torah, and Talmud and their history.

In Islam, it was like in marxism.... holy to destroy all who stood in
their way.... everywhere. And look at the results, and look at the
historical homicidism. Look, you gutless beastly whore of a marxist.

Just look. Stop lying and look at the obvious, you two bit want to be
slaver.

The article posted about the anniversary of the millions killed by the
'collective' during the 20's- millions of people tormented, and
destroyed. And then forgotten,because in your religion- mistakes are
others faults, or forgotten, or just something that was a result of a
less than perfect marxist state, and therefore excusable.

And the teddy bear incident- amongst 100 such incidents this year in the
religion of submission- a hideous torturing and wish for murder by the
religion, by the religion of submission, of others. What a hideous
foulness. No wonder you want to have others practice that 'successful
warrior religion.

Go ahead,make a fortune selling teddy bears on ebay, and nam them after
the greatest of sages, greatest of prophets- Moses.

No Jew will threaten you. It wouldn't happen, nor ever happen.

You are a phony want to be killer.

You pray for the destruction of the world, and you live like the creepy
half man you are, on that mountain posting about how everyone's going to
starve and die, because that is your theology. That is you.


02 Dec 2007 11:24:59
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Greendistantstar wrote:

>>I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
>>up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
>>do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>>
>>Trav
>
>
> And see now how they run....
>
> http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22858873-5005961,00.html
>
Yes.... and it is instructive, out of all this teddy bear, submission,
that the ideology of 'multiculturalism, is being nailed in it's deserved
coffin. Well... it will fight to all our deaths to maintain it's
kingdom, but it surely is a wonder how the guy learned nothing... saying
he felt 'safe' where he was. Will he in five years, surrendering as he
does, as we do?.

Mark
--------

From Times Online
November 30, 2007
Feminist author rewrites novel after death threats from Muslim extremists

(PA)
Taslima Nasreen has been targeted by Islamic extremists who claim that
her books are blasphemous
Ashling O’Connor, Bombay
A feminist author is to rewrite her autobiography after she was forced
to flee from Muslim extremists who placed a bounty on her head.

Taslima Nasreen, 45, a former doctor, said today that she hoped that the
move would appease fundamentalist groups and end a controversy that
forced her to leave Calcutta last week.

Ms Nasreen had claimed that the religious references in Dwikhandito,
which means Divided, are sourced from “universally accepted” books on
Islamic history.

Today she relented under pressure and said that “controversial lines”
relating to Islam from the autobiographical novel would be removed.

“The book was written in 2002, based on my memories of Bangladesh in the
1980s, during which time secularism was removed from the Bangladesh
constitution. I wrote the book in support of the people who defended
secular values. I had no intention to hurt anybody’s sentiment,” she
said today from a secret location.

“I have done what I have never done in my life. I have compromised even
in a secular India.” She added that she hoped she would now be able to
“live peacefully” in India.

Prashant Mukherjee, her publisher in Calcutta, refused to divulge the
exact text or the nature of the sentences that were deemed particularly
offensive by Islamic clerics, but said two paragraphs would be deleted.

Mr Mukherjee said that the Muslim-born author, who was whisked to a safe
house near Delhi by federal security officers, had instructed him not to
reveal the content for fear of stoking communal tensions further.

“I can tell you that we thought it to be historical and true and that it
would not give rise to any controversy,” he said. “It’s nothing
extraordinarily poisonous against Islam but these people are
hypersensitive.”

The publisher is not releasing any more copies of the unedited book,
which has sold more than 30,000 copies in the original language since it
was published in 2003. It has also been translated into Hindi.

Ms Nasreen was hounded out of Calcutta after widespread violence during
a strike by a collection of minority groups demanding the cancellation
of her visa. She had been living in the city since 2004 after returning
from Europe.

The Indian Government has pointed out that the author is a guest in the
country, which is home to 140 million Muslims, and should behave like
one. However, it has promised to host her at least until her visa
expires in March.

Ms Nasreen, who describes herself as a “secular humanist”, fled her
homeland of Bangladesh in 1994. Her other works, including the 1994
novel Lajja (Shame), have provoked extremists to call for her execution
for blasphemy.

Some of the Muslim clerics, who issued a fatwa against her and put a
100,000 rupee (£1,200) bounty on her head, said that if she had
expressed regret at what she had written by withdrawing the offensive
sections, then the “matter should be closed”.
---------------------------
and this from the Sydny morning herald:

Inmates studying al-Qaeda manual

Heath Gilmore
December 2, 2007

ISLAMIC extremists are using an al-Qaeda training manual to give them
instructions for taking over the state's toughest jails, prison
authorities have alleged.

Up to 40 inmates had established an internal organisational structure to
maintain morale, resist interrogation and recruit members to Islam.

The prisoners had set up leadership groups in several maximum-security
jails, with their activities governed by the code outlined in the
al-Qaeda manual for incarcerated followers.

A number of Corrective Services staff have been targeted, some with
violent threats by inmate groups. Other staff have been singled out for
conversion to Islam.

NSW Attorney-General John Hatzistergos said an undisclosed number of
inmates had been transferred to other jails in an attempt to disrupt the
leadership groups.

Mr Hatzistergos said he was extremely concerned about the broader
attempts to infiltrate the jail system, which were uncovered after
sweeping changes to prison regulations allowed 24-hour monitoring of
Muslim inmates.

The latest crackdown followed the disclosure this year that a third of
the state's most dangerous criminals held in the highest-security jail
in Australia, the Super Max facility inside Goulburn jail, were Muslim
fundamentalists or converts to Islam.

"The insidious nature of these activities remind us we have to be
constantly vigilant to these types of threats for the security of our
correctional system," Mr Hatzistergos said.

NSW Corrective Services Commissioner Ron Woodham said international
prison authorities had alerted Australian authorities to the existence
of the manual three months ago.

Corrective Services staff had since uncovered patterns of behaviour
among inmates consistent with instructions in the manual, including
hunger strikes, group protests and claims of mistreatment, he said.

"There were hunger strikes and organised complaints about their
treatment," he said. "We have detected the leadership in groups across
our maximum security jails [and] have moved in to segregate them and
split them up.

"There is nothing wrong with conversion to Islam for the right reasons,
but we believe there has been conversion taking place for the wrong
reasons."

The Security Threat Group Intervention Program, established in 2003 to
stop ethnic and other criminal gangs exerting control within NSW jails,
is now being used to identify and relocate the ringleaders who are
applying the code outlined in the al-Qaeda manual, to counter the
growing threat of terrorism.

Terrorist hierarchy


- The al-Qaeda training manual was first obtained by the CIA in 1996.
- It suggests a 10-position leadership structure for members held in prison.

- The structure includes "barracks chief and deputies", "greeters to
meet and instruct new arrivals", "welfare attendant to organise
equitable distribution of goods from families and aid organisations" and
"clergy", presumably to attend to spiritual needs as well as to recruit
new adherents to their faith, according to the CIA report.


02 Dec 2007 09:44:58
travisgod@aol.cominyrface
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 1, 11:12 pm, h...@nospam.org wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:42:30 -0700, "Chas" <chascleme...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"Don Wagner" <dawag...@netcom.com> wrote
> >>>There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
> >>>met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
> >> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
> >> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
> >> similar.
>
> >True-
> >but look at the disparity in numbers, both of incidents/victims and
> >perpetrators.
> >The fact that similar incidents happen on a microcosmic level is not
> >mitigation of the blame for a far more common practice.
> >Further, the Muslims have authoritative references in their holy literature;
> >Christians aren't instructed to go kill anyone.
>
> If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD
> thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the
> sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath
> gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or
> moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ...
> Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have
> committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that
> woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
> -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5
>
> >And there is some justification in killing an imminent murderer to save the
> >putative victim. Whether one agrees or not, abortion is seen as a homicide
> >by many people- and no one ever voted in the permission for abortion. It's
> >justified by fiat.
> >Islam has no such imminent threat by some perpetrator, only the condition of
> >being non-muslim or non-the-right-kind-of-muslim.
>
> If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say
> to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name
> of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother,
> shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
>
>
>
> >Chas
>
> You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you.
> Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they
> will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever
> conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?'
> But don't be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did
> to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors
> the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own
> eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing
> power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God
> will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the
> LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still
> hiding from you! "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD
> your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD
> your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little.
> You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild
> animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God
> will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete
> confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your
> power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No
> one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all.
> (Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)
>
> When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter
> and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the
> Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and
> Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When
> the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer
> them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them
> and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let
> your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will
> lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the
> anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you.
> (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)

That's well and good that you can cite some scripture.

Show me the ACTS.

Bush the Evangelist EXECUTES abortion doctor killers.

Trav


02 Dec 2007 09:46:51
travisgod@aol.cominyrface
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 1, 10:44 pm, h...@nospam.org wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:11:50 -0800 (PST), Pierre Honeyman
>
> <pear...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 1, 8:24 am, dawag...@netcom.com (Don Wagner) wrote:
> >> "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
> >> >met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>
> >> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
> >> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
> >> similar.
>
> >So naming a stuffed toy after a holy figure is the same as actually
> >killing something? Kind of a weak argument.
>
> killing "something"? Killing "something" is not a crime, we do it
> every day.
>
> Hal

Your equivalence argument is hollow.

You have 1000 year old Christian doctrine versus Islamic doctrine from
RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

WTF is your point? "all" religions are bad? Ok...so now what?

Or are you so addicted to the cuckold lifestyle that you desire to be
dominated by literally anyone you perceive as better than you (which
is pretty much everybody).

Trav


02 Dec 2007 19:29:45
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Er Hal this is about current events not scripture. You know what is
happening today.




03 Dec 2007 01:49:25
heremenot
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

All your references are OLD testament passages and therefore irrelevent.
The christian religion did not EXIST during the time of these writings.
The FIRST thing they teach you at sunday school (I'm told) is how everything
CHANGED as a result of Christ and the NEW testament.
Have you NO understanding of history or religion at all?

Only a moron could be so ignorant. (ergo - read some books)
OR
Only an asshole could be so deliberately untruthful and inflamatory. (ergo -
FOAD)

take your pick...


hal@nospam.org wrote:
>On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:42:30 -0700, "Chas" <chasclements@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>"Don Wagner" <dawagner@netcom.com> wrote
>>>>There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
>>>>met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>>> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
>>> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
>>> similar.
>>
>>True-
>>but look at the disparity in numbers, both of incidents/victims and
>>perpetrators.
>>The fact that similar incidents happen on a microcosmic level is not
>>mitigation of the blame for a far more common practice.
>>Further, the Muslims have authoritative references in their holy literature;
>>Christians aren't instructed to go kill anyone.
>
>If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD
>thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the
>sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath
>gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or
>moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ...
>Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have
>committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that
>woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
> -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5
>
>>And there is some justification in killing an imminent murderer to save the
>>putative victim. Whether one agrees or not, abortion is seen as a homicide
>>by many people- and no one ever voted in the permission for abortion. It's
>>justified by fiat.
>>Islam has no such imminent threat by some perpetrator, only the condition of
>>being non-muslim or non-the-right-kind-of-muslim.
>
>If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say
>to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name
>of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother,
>shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
>
>>
>>Chas
>>
>>
>You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you.
>Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they
>will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever
>conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?'
>But don't be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did
>to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors
>the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own
>eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing
>power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God
>will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the
>LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still
>hiding from you! "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD
>your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD
>your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little.
>You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild
>animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God
>will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete
>confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your
>power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No
>one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all.
>(Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)
>
>When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter
>and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the
>Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and
>Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When
>the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer
>them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them
>and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let
>your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will
>lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the
>anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you.
>(Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)



02 Dec 2007 21:22:13
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

heremenot wrote:

> All your references are OLD testament passages and therefore irrelevent.
> The christian religion did not EXIST during the time of these writings.

Your commentary misses the point. The passages and actual history are
not condemantory at all, compared to Islam. And that Torah describes the
problems of all those who were left to reside in that one and only land
that was claimed... and how much damage it did, due to the 'tolerance'
and justice that that land evidenced even within it's only place
claimed. As opposed to attacks upon everyone, else, everywhere else, in
the name of Mo's god.

And, the actual history's speak volumnes as to the difference between
them, and those who were commanded by one guy, to kill all infidels,
submit all infidels, across the earth. Your take on your christianity
did not accurately reflect either, nor your christianity thereafter....

The muslim religion did not exist then, but Mo' claims it preceeds the
Torah.... in fact, he had to invent a history to use those patriaches
and matriaches to paint a religous veneer since without it, there was
none, to be found in his screeds.
The point about looking at history, and theology and how that impacts
on real events today as evidence of the theology and the meaning of the
history, is the point in this thread about a poor well-meaning
schoolteacher who faces the homicidal swords of hatred of infidels, as
usual, and as has been so, for 1375 yrs.





02 Dec 2007 19:11:07
travisgod@aol.cominyrface
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 2, 9:22 pm, Mark Goldberg <msgoldb...@optonline.net > wrote:
> heremenot wrote:
> > All your references are OLD testament passages and therefore irrelevent.
> > The christian religion did not EXIST during the time of these writings.
>
> Your commentary misses the point. The passages and actual history are
> not condemantory at all, compared to Islam. And that Torah describes the
> problems of all those who were left to reside in that one and only land
> that was claimed... and how much damage it did, due to the 'tolerance'
> and justice that that land evidenced even within it's only place
> claimed. As opposed to attacks upon everyone, else, everywhere else, in
> the name of Mo's god.
>
> And, the actual history's speak volumnes as to the difference between
> them, and those who were commanded by one guy, to kill all infidels,
> submit all infidels, across the earth. Your take on your christianity
> did not accurately reflect either, nor your christianity thereafter....
>
> The muslim religion did not exist then, but Mo' claims it preceeds the
> Torah.... in fact, he had to invent a history to use those patriaches
> and matriaches to paint a religous veneer since without it, there was
> none, to be found in his screeds.
> The point about looking at history, and theology and how that impacts
> on real events today as evidence of the theology and the meaning of the
> history, is the point in this thread about a poor well-meaning
> schoolteacher who faces the homicidal swords of hatred of infidels, as
> usual, and as has been so, for 1375 yrs.

well, hal makes what passes for a point in his circle, about
"equivalence" in the scriptures of the Torah and the Koran.

OK...I'll stipulate to that, arguendo.

The jooz and Christians regard those passages as ONLY RELEVANT to the
time in which the commandments were made. There is NO mainstream
cleric of either religion who advocates their relevance NOW. Some or
even MANY Christians regard those passages as superseded by Christ,
and HIS commandments as the central tenets of the religion and some of
his command outright pacifism.

If muslims wish to adopt a SIMILAR stance on their book, I am ALL FOR
IT. Yes, be JUST LIKE the joos and christians and regard all the
commandments to slay the infidels and rape the horses and copulate
with young boys and prepubescent girls as relevant ONLY TO THE TIME in
which the commandment was given. Let the jihad and the martyrdom be
valid for 1000 years ago, not now.

The problem with this is that the muslims very much regard those
passages as relevant NOW, in 2007, still operative, still in force, a
PRESENT commandment. There is no analog in joodaism or christianity.
The jihad goes on, today, kill joos, kill christians, subjugate, and
dominate. There was NO RIOT, armed or otherwise, by ANYONE over "piss
Christ" or Sinead O'Connor or any of a number of OVERTLY blasphemous
acts against christianity...yet a misunderstanding, an innocent
mistake, turns into an "insult against islam," which is an actual
codified CRIME in Sudan, and there are apparently a few thousand not
just who believe, but are willing to brandish weapons and go into the
streets to demand her EXECUTION?

Nobody SANE could make a comparison between these 3 religions. People
irreverently name all kinds of things jesus and god here in the
USA...witness my very own pseudonym! Yet, not once, HAL, you fuckin
moron, has anyone HERE called for my execution, despite their being,
AS YOU CLAIM, Christian fundies!

I have received not a SINGLE death threat for what could be viewed as
blasphemy and which would get me QUICKLY put to death almost ANYWHERE
in the muslim world.

Trav


02 Dec 2007 22:35:54
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

travisgod@aol.cominyrface wrote:

>
> The problem with this is that the muslims very much regard those
> passages as relevant NOW, in 2007, still operative, still in force, a
> PRESENT commandment. There is no analog in joodaism or christianity.

Yes... And all Hal ever does is make a moral equivalence which isn't
even there. The Torah lays out where, when, who and it is in a small
area in as certain time and has nothing to do with all or forever, nor
everywhere. All the major schools Islamic legalism that came later,
support and have propagated this forever, and everywhere, since it's
inception. There was no such thing in Judaism, nor in Christianity.

> The jihad goes on, today, kill joos, kill christians, subjugate, and
> dominate. There was NO RIOT, armed or otherwise, by ANYONE over "piss
> Christ" or Sinead O'Connor or any of a number of OVERTLY blasphemous
> acts against christianity...yet a misunderstanding, an innocent
> mistake, turns into an "insult against islam," which is an actual
> codified CRIME in Sudan, and there are apparently a few thousand not
> just who believe, but are willing to brandish weapons and go into the
> streets to demand her EXECUTION?

And yet, those 400,000 raped, fucked women and children, enslaved,
tormented into forcible conversion, by Islam, and so codified by the
Arab League and the Saudi Sheiks as entirely an 'Islamic affair' and so
justified for 16 yrs... that goes quietly on, and on.

And this 'moral' equivalence is one of the biggest factors in
propagating the travesties. This is a martial issue, and has been for
them for a long time. They understand it, as for always and forever,
and against anyone and everyone, including themselves.
>
> Nobody SANE could make a comparison between these 3 religions.

Mark


02 Dec 2007 20:00:34
Pierre Honeyman
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 1, 7:44 pm, h...@nospam.org wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:11:50 -0800 (PST), Pierre Honeyman
>
> <pear...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 1, 8:24 am, dawag...@netcom.com (Don Wagner) wrote:
> >> "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
> >> >met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>
> >> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
> >> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
> >> similar.
>
> >So naming a stuffed toy after a holy figure is the same as actually
> >killing something? Kind of a weak argument.
>
> killing "something"? Killing "something" is not a crime, we do it
> every day.

I didn't say killing was a crime. But certainly it's more momentous
than naming a toy.

Pierre


02 Dec 2007 22:59:43
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!


>> Nobody SANE could make a comparison between these 3 religions.

Insanity is a rational adjustment to an irrational world.




03 Dec 2007 07:53:37
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Pierre Honeyman wrote:

>
> I didn't say killing was a crime. But certainly it's more momentous
> than naming a toy.

Here's the take from the others, the other homicidists who kill in the
name of Mo'.

Mark
----------------------


'Don't let teddy bear b-tch see light of day'
Mideast terror leaders tell Sudan: 'She must be stoned or fired on'

Posted: December 2, 2007

© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

Mideast terrorist leaders are threatening to kill a British teacher
imprisoned in Sudan for allowing her students to name a teddy bear
Muhammad, accusing the teacher of engaging in missionary activity in
interviews with WND Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein.
Some terror leaders warned of retaliatory attacks against U.S. and
British targets.
During today's interviews, Klein petitioned the Islamic terrorists to
respond to recent notorious Muslim desecration of other religions' holy
sites and asked them whether they considered it hypocritical they are
currently protesting the teddy bear report.

While the teacher, Gillian Gibbons, has been the target of violent
street protests in Sudan, the jihadi leaders' threats mark the first
time Mideast terror groups responded to the high-profile case.

"We call on our Sudanese brothers to prepare themselves with explosive
belts and not allow this bitch to see the light of day," said Muhammad
Abdel-Al, spokesman and a senior leader of the Gaza-based Popular
Resistance Committees terror group.

"I pray to Allah that I could have the opportunity to go to Sudan with
my brothers to slaughter this unbeliever Christian. We ask the Sudanese
to execute her in [the] hardest way. Any execution must be public; she
must be stoned or fired on and the punishment must be harsh," Abdel-Al
told Klein.

Responding to reports Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir is contemplating
pardoning the 54-year-old Gibbons, Abdel-Al asked the Sudanese
government "not to give into the international and Christian-Crusader
pressure to set this bitch free."

"[Gibbons] proves all their titles of human rights and any other
activities [Westerners] do in our countries are only ways to hide the
real goals of these people – they are all missionaries or Western
intelligence agents. With all the tolerance that Islam has, we must not
bear any of this activity."

Abdel-Al, whose group previously was accused of bombing Americans, told
Klein his Committees was calling for "jihad to attack all these people
wherever they are. Any attack must be loud. Any damage that can be
caused to the Satanic empires of the U.S. and Britain is allowed."
Abdel-Al's Popular Resistance Committees is responsible for scores of
suicide bombings and thousands of suicide attack and rocket launchings
aimed at Jewish population centers. It is accused of bombing a U.S.
convoy in Gaza in 2003, killing three American government contractors.
Another militant, Abu Abdullah, considered one of the most important
operational members of Hamas' so-called military wing, told Klein that
Gibbons "must be sentenced to death and harshly sanctioned according to
Sharia law."

"This woman doesn't respect Islam, not only because of what she says but
because she brings to the Sudanese people all of your Western and
Crusader corruption. Crusaders have no religion, culture or human values
... all your values are corrupted, inhumane, based on sex and materialism."

Abu Ahmed, the northern Gaza Strip commander of the Al Aqsa Martyrs
Brigades terror group, the declared military wing of Palestinian
Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party, said his organization is
presenting a proposal to the Sudanese government to allow street mobs to
deal with Gibbons.

"Our point of view is we say this woman must be given to the Sudanese
people in the street. This is my proposal so the government will not be
responsible for any damage or killing of this woman. Just give her to
the Sudanese people and I'm sure the people there will send this woman
back to her family and missionary bosses in the way that is the most
suitable."

Ahmed's Brigades took credit along with the Islamic Jihad terror group
for every suicide bombing in Israel the past three years.
Ahmed said the Sudanese street should "use their imaginations" while
meting out street justice to Gibbons, who was sentenced last week to 15
days in prison and deportation for insulting Islam when she allowed her
students to name a class teddy bear Muhammad, a common Muslim name and
also the namesake of Islam's founder.

Concern for Gibbons' safety was sparked Friday after thousands of
Sudanese, many reportedly armed with clubs and swords, burned pictures
of her and demanded her execution during a rally in Khartoum, the
country's capital.
Gibbons was moved from a women's prison to a secret location after the
angry demonstrations. There was no overt sign that the government had
organized the protest, but such a rally could not have taken place
without at least official assent, reported the International Herald Tribune.
Muslims confronted about desecration of other religions' holy sites

While the Mideast terrorists were quick to accuse Gibbons of insulting
Islam, they sung a different tune when asked by Klein to account for
rampant Muslim desecration of other religions' holy sites, with some
desecrations carried out by the very militants Klein interviewed.

In one instance, when Israel evacuated the Gaza Strip's Jewish
communities in 2005 but left behind 20 synagogues, Palestinian mobs
destroyed the Jewish structures, including two major synagogues in Neve
Dekalim, the largest Gaza Jewish community. Israel says it left the
synagogues since Jewish law prohibits destroying the holy structures.

In front of international camera crews, the Palestinians ripped off
aluminum window frames and metal ceiling fixtures from the Neve Dekalim
synagogues, which were situated close to each other in the center of
town. Members of Hamas and Abdel Al's Popular Resistance Committees
reportedly flew the Palestinian and Hamas flags from the structures
before mobs burned down the synagogues.
The Committees now control the swath of territory upon which the Neve
Dekalim synagogues rested.

Abdel-Al told Klein the synagogue ruins are being used as rocket launch
pads to fire projectiles into Israeli communities.
"We are proud to turn these lands, especially these parts that were for
long time the symbol of occupation and injustice, like the synagogue,
into a military base and source of fire against the Zionists and the
Zionist entity," said Abdel-Al.

Asked how he can justify complaining about non-Muslims allegedly
insulting Islam when his group desecrated synagogues, Ablel-Al blamed
Israel for the Jewish structures' molestations:
"The Zionists left these so called synagogues in order to make that one
day media outlets like WorldNetDaily would raise the pathetic and rude
argument about what we have done to the poor Zionists holy places.
(Israel) left the synagogues behind so the world would see the
Palestinians destroying them," he said.

He said the synagogues were not holy since Judaism and Christianity were
"falsified" and that "Islam came to correct all other fake religions."
In Klein's new book, "Schmoozing with Terrorists," the Jewish author
ventured into Islamist strongholds to confront Mideast Muslim terrorist
leaders accused of the rampant desecration of other religions' holy sites.

In 2002, Fatah terrorists fleeing an Israeli antiterror operation ran
inside Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity – the believed birthplace of
Jesus and one of the holiest sites in Christianity – where the gunmen
took nuns and priests hostage and holed up inside the church for 39
days. After the siege ended, there were widespread media reports,
including video footage, the Nativity church had been left in shambles.
Clergy trapped inside later told reporters top Palestinian gunmen slept
on comfortable beds in an elegant apartment inside the church, using
high-quality woolen blankets, while the civilians slept on cold tile
floors in the main church downstairs.

Four Greek monks told the Washington Times the Palestinian gunmen holed
up with them seized church stockpiles of food and "ate like greedy
monsters" until the food ran out, while the trapped civilians went
hungry. The terrorists also were accused of guzzling beer, wine and
Johnny Walker scotch they found in the priests' quarters.
A Roman Catholic priest trapped inside told the Times some Bibles were
torn up and used as toilet paper.

In "Schmoozing," Klein catches up with the director of the church siege,
Jihad Jaara, who was chief of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terror group
in Bethlehem, as well as with other terror leaders trapped inside.
The Jewish reporter confronted Jaara and other jihadi leaders with the
toilet paper account.

"I am not ready to hear your dirty accusations," snapped Jaara. "It is
completely untrue that we used the Bible as toilet paper."
Confronted about the video footage showing the church in poor condition,
Jaara replied:
"As for the conditions in which we left the church, it is true there was
a lot of dirt but it is normal to the conditions in which we were
living. Thirty-nine days without any water and any possibility to move
because of the snipers who were placed all around the church."

In what Klein labels the "most vile holy site desecration in recent
history," when Israeli forces in 2000 evacuated the area outside the
northern West Bank city of Nablus, or Biblical Shechem, Palestinians
overtook Joseph's Tomb – Judaism's third holiest site – located at the
area of the Israeli retreat. The Tomb is the believed burial place of
the biblical patriarch Joseph – the son of Jacob who was sold by his
brothers into slavery and later became the viceroy of Egypt.

Within less than an hour of the Israeli retreat, Palestinians stormed
Joseph's Tomb and reportedly began to ransack the structure. Palestinian
mobs reportedly tore apart books, destroying prayer stands and grinding
out stone carvings in the Tomb's interior. The Palestinians hoisted a
Muslim flag over the tomb, painted the dome green – the color of Islam –
and later converted the site's attached yeshiva into a mosque.
In "Schmoozing," Klein meets with the chief of the terror group
responsible for the repeated attacks on Joseph's Tomb leading up to the
Israeli evacuation and also confronts Palestinian lawmakers reportedly
involved in the tomb's desecration.

Tafiq Tarawi, a Palestinian lawmaker who led a major cell of the Al Aqsa
Martyrs Brigades terror group responsible for many of the tomb attacks,
claimed to Klein that Joseph's Tomb was never a Jewish site.
"This is a holy site where our fathers and grandfathers and all Muslims
used to pray. This is part of our holy sites and part of our cult and
faith and not the Jews."

Abu Mujaheed, another Brigades leader of the 2000 attacks against
Joseph's Tomb, had a different story. He told Klein that Judaism's third
holy site, firebombed by his group, really was an Israeli military base.
Klein accused the Palestinian mob that burned Joseph's Tomb of engaging
in "the most barbaric behavior imaginable.

Mujaheed thundered back: "You Jews and Americans are the animals who do
not respect holy sites. ... You are the animals who desecrate holy books
and the holy Quran in prisons like many of our heroic prisoners witnessed."
-------------------------


03 Dec 2007 07:58:12
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Herbert Cannon wrote:

>>>Nobody SANE could make a comparison between these 3 religions.
>
>
> Insanity is a rational adjustment to an irrational world.
>
>
I just posted this in the thread, before reading your comment.... but
since the article is so evil, so vicious, so ugly and so very much what
the bullshit muslim homicide upon the west, upon every religion, and
every people, I think it deserves to be posted twice- especially appropo
to what you've noted.

mark
--------------


'Don't let teddy bear b-tch see light of day'
Mideast terror leaders tell Sudan: 'She must be stoned or fired on'

Posted: December 2, 2007


© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

Mideast terrorist leaders are threatening to kill a British teacher
imprisoned in Sudan for allowing her students to name a teddy bear
Muhammad, accusing the teacher of engaging in missionary activity in
interviews with WND Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein.
Some terror leaders warned of retaliatory attacks against U.S. and
British targets.

During today's interviews, Klein petitioned the Islamic terrorists to
respond to recent notorious Muslim desecration of other religions' holy
sites and asked them whether they considered it hypocritical they are
currently protesting the teddy bear report.

While the teacher, Gillian Gibbons, has been the target of violent
street protests in Sudan, the jihadi leaders' threats mark the first
time Mideast terror groups responded to the high-profile case.
"We call on our Sudanese brothers to prepare themselves with explosive
belts and not allow this bitch to see the light of day," said Muhammad
Abdel-Al, spokesman and a senior leader of the Gaza-based Popular
Resistance Committees terror group.

"I pray to Allah that I could have the opportunity to go to Sudan with
my brothers to slaughter this unbeliever Christian. We ask the Sudanese
to execute her in [the] hardest way. Any execution must be public; she
must be stoned or fired on and the punishment must be harsh," Abdel-Al
told Klein.

Responding to reports Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir is contemplating
pardoning the 54-year-old Gibbons, Abdel-Al asked the Sudanese
government "not to give into the international and Christian-Crusader
pressure to set this bitch free."

"[Gibbons] proves all their titles of human rights and any other
activities [Westerners] do in our countries are only ways to hide the
real goals of these people – they are all missionaries or Western
intelligence agents. With all the tolerance that Islam has, we must not
bear any of this activity."

Abdel-Al, whose group previously was accused of bombing Americans, told
Klein his Committees was calling for "jihad to attack all these people
wherever they are. Any attack must be loud. Any damage that can be
caused to the Satanic empires of the U.S. and Britain is allowed."
Abdel-Al's Popular Resistance Committees is responsible for scores of
suicide bombings and thousands of suicide attack and rocket launchings
aimed at Jewish population centers. It is accused of bombing a U.S.
convoy in Gaza in 2003, killing three American government contractors.
Another militant, Abu Abdullah, considered one of the most important
operational members of Hamas' so-called military wing, told Klein that
Gibbons "must be sentenced to death and harshly sanctioned according to
Sharia law."

"This woman doesn't respect Islam, not only because of what she says but
because she brings to the Sudanese people all of your Western and
Crusader corruption. Crusaders have no religion, culture or human values
... all your values are corrupted, inhumane, based on sex and materialism."

Abu Ahmed, the northern Gaza Strip commander of the Al Aqsa Martyrs
Brigades terror group, the declared military wing of Palestinian
Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party, said his organization is
presenting a proposal to the Sudanese government to allow street mobs to
deal with Gibbons.
"Our point of view is we say this woman must be given to the Sudanese
people in the street. This is my proposal so the government will not be
responsible for any damage or killing of this woman. Just give her to
the Sudanese people and I'm sure the people there will send this woman
back to her family and missionary bosses in the way that is the most
suitable."

Ahmed's Brigades took credit along with the Islamic Jihad terror group
for every suicide bombing in Israel the past three years.
Ahmed said the Sudanese street should "use their imaginations" while
meting out street justice to Gibbons, who was sentenced last week to 15
days in prison and deportation for insulting Islam when she allowed her
students to name a class teddy bear Muhammad, a common Muslim name and
also the namesake of Islam's founder.

Concern for Gibbons' safety was sparked Friday after thousands of
Sudanese, many reportedly armed with clubs and swords, burned pictures
of her and demanded her execution during a rally in Khartoum, the
country's capital.

Gibbons was moved from a women's prison to a secret location after the
angry demonstrations. There was no overt sign that the government had
organized the protest, but such a rally could not have taken place
without at least official assent, reported the International Herald Tribune.
Muslims confronted about desecration of other religions' holy sites

While the Mideast terrorists were quick to accuse Gibbons of insulting
Islam, they sung a different tune when asked by Klein to account for
rampant Muslim desecration of other religions' holy sites, with some
desecrations carried out by the very militants Klein interviewed.
In one instance, when Israel evacuated the Gaza Strip's Jewish
communities in 2005 but left behind 20 synagogues, Palestinian mobs
destroyed the Jewish structures, including two major synagogues in Neve
Dekalim, the largest Gaza Jewish community. Israel says it left the
synagogues since Jewish law prohibits destroying the holy structures.
In front of international camera crews, the Palestinians ripped off
aluminum window frames and metal ceiling fixtures from the Neve Dekalim
synagogues, which were situated close to each other in the center of
town. Members of Hamas and Abdel Al's Popular Resistance Committees
reportedly flew the Palestinian and Hamas flags from the structures
before mobs burned down the synagogues.

The Committees now control the swath of territory upon which the Neve
Dekalim synagogues rested.
Abdel-Al told Klein the synagogue ruins are being used as rocket launch
pads to fire projectiles into Israeli communities.
"We are proud to turn these lands, especially these parts that were for
long time the symbol of occupation and injustice, like the synagogue,
into a military base and source of fire against the Zionists and the
Zionist entity," said Abdel-Al.

Asked how he can justify complaining about non-Muslims allegedly
insulting Islam when his group desecrated synagogues, Ablel-Al blamed
Israel for the Jewish structures' molestations:
"The Zionists left these so called synagogues in order to make that one
day media outlets like WorldNetDaily would raise the pathetic and rude
argument about what we have done to the poor Zionists holy places.
(Israel) left the synagogues behind so the world would see the
Palestinians destroying them," he said.

He said the synagogues were not holy since Judaism and Christianity were
"falsified" and that "Islam came to correct all other fake religions."
In Klein's new book, "Schmoozing with Terrorists," the Jewish author
ventured into Islamist strongholds to confront Mideast Muslim terrorist
leaders accused of the rampant desecration of other religions' holy sites.

In 2002, Fatah terrorists fleeing an Israeli antiterror operation ran
inside Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity – the believed birthplace of
Jesus and one of the holiest sites in Christianity – where the gunmen
took nuns and priests hostage and holed up inside the church for 39
days. After the siege ended, there were widespread media reports,
including video footage, the Nativity church had been left in shambles.
Clergy trapped inside later told reporters top Palestinian gunmen slept
on comfortable beds in an elegant apartment inside the church, using
high-quality woolen blankets, while the civilians slept on cold tile
floors in the main church downstairs.

Four Greek monks told the Washington Times the Palestinian gunmen holed
up with them seized church stockpiles of food and "ate like greedy
monsters" until the food ran out, while the trapped civilians went
hungry. The terrorists also were accused of guzzling beer, wine and
Johnny Walker scotch they found in the priests' quarters.
A Roman Catholic priest trapped inside told the Times some Bibles were
torn up and used as toilet paper.

In "Schmoozing," Klein catches up with the director of the church siege,
Jihad Jaara, who was chief of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terror group
in Bethlehem, as well as with other terror leaders trapped inside.
The Jewish reporter confronted Jaara and other jihadi leaders with the
toilet paper account.

"I am not ready to hear your dirty accusations," snapped Jaara. "It is
completely untrue that we used the Bible as toilet paper."
Confronted about the video footage showing the church in poor condition,
Jaara replied:
"As for the conditions in which we left the church, it is true there was
a lot of dirt but it is normal to the conditions in which we were
living. Thirty-nine days without any water and any possibility to move
because of the snipers who were placed all around the church."
In what Klein labels the "most vile holy site desecration in recent
history," when Israeli forces in 2000 evacuated the area outside the
northern West Bank city of Nablus, or Biblical Shechem, Palestinians
overtook Joseph's Tomb – Judaism's third holiest site – located at the
area of the Israeli retreat. The Tomb is the believed burial place of
the biblical patriarch Joseph – the son of Jacob who was sold by his
brothers into slavery and later became the viceroy of Egypt.
Within less than an hour of the Israeli retreat, Palestinians stormed
Joseph's Tomb and reportedly began to ransack the structure. Palestinian
mobs reportedly tore apart books, destroying prayer stands and grinding
out stone carvings in the Tomb's interior. The Palestinians hoisted a
Muslim flag over the tomb, painted the dome green – the color of Islam –
and later converted the site's attached yeshiva into a mosque.
In "Schmoozing," Klein meets with the chief of the terror group
responsible for the repeated attacks on Joseph's Tomb leading up to the
Israeli evacuation and also confronts Palestinian lawmakers reportedly
involved in the tomb's desecration.

Tafiq Tarawi, a Palestinian lawmaker who led a major cell of the Al Aqsa
Martyrs Brigades terror group responsible for many of the tomb attacks,
claimed to Klein that Joseph's Tomb was never a Jewish site.
"This is a holy site where our fathers and grandfathers and all Muslims
used to pray. This is part of our holy sites and part of our cult and
faith and not the Jews."

Abu Mujaheed, another Brigades leader of the 2000 attacks against
Joseph's Tomb, had a different story. He told Klein that Judaism's third
holy site, firebombed by his group, really was an Israeli military base.
Klein accused the Palestinian mob that burned Joseph's Tomb of engaging
in "the most barbaric behavior imaginable.
Mujaheed thundered back: "You Jews and Americans are the animals who do
not respect holy sites. ... You are the animals who desecrate holy books
and the holy Quran in prisons like many of our heroic prisoners witnessed."


03 Dec 2007 14:18:41
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:49:25 GMT, heremenot <heremenot@omit.org >
wrote:

>All your references are OLD testament passages and therefore irrelevent.
>The christian religion did not EXIST during the time of these writings.
>The FIRST thing they teach you at sunday school (I'm told) is how everything
>CHANGED as a result of Christ and the NEW testament.
>Have you NO understanding of history or religion at all?

oh, right. Jesus of Nazareth. The Prince of Peace. Who turned all
followers of Him (Christians) into pacifists and socialists. Yea,
right.

now what's wrong with this picture?

Hal

>
>Only a moron could be so ignorant. (ergo - read some books)
>OR
>Only an asshole could be so deliberately untruthful and inflamatory. (ergo -
>FOAD)
>
>take your pick...
>
>
>hal@nospam.org wrote:
>>On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:42:30 -0700, "Chas" <chasclements@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>"Don Wagner" <dawagner@netcom.com> wrote
>>>>>There is no Christian that anyone has EVER
>>>>>met that wants to execute a fuckin teacher for naming a pet Jesus.
>>>> Hal could make the arguement that the bombing of abortion clinics and
>>>> killing of doctors working in those places by self named Christians is
>>>> similar.
>>>
>>>True-
>>>but look at the disparity in numbers, both of incidents/victims and
>>>perpetrators.
>>>The fact that similar incidents happen on a microcosmic level is not
>>>mitigation of the blame for a far more common practice.
>>>Further, the Muslims have authoritative references in their holy literature;
>>>Christians aren't instructed to go kill anyone.
>>
>>If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD
>>thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the
>>sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath
>>gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or
>>moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ...
>>Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have
>>committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that
>>woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
>> -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5
>>
>>>And there is some justification in killing an imminent murderer to save the
>>>putative victim. Whether one agrees or not, abortion is seen as a homicide
>>>by many people- and no one ever voted in the permission for abortion. It's
>>>justified by fiat.
>>>Islam has no such imminent threat by some perpetrator, only the condition of
>>>being non-muslim or non-the-right-kind-of-muslim.
>>
>>If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say
>>to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name
>>of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother,
>>shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
>>
>>>
>>>Chas
>>>
>>>
>>You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you.
>>Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they
>>will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever
>>conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?'
>>But don't be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did
>>to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors
>>the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own
>>eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing
>>power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God
>>will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the
>>LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still
>>hiding from you! "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD
>>your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD
>>your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little.
>>You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild
>>animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God
>>will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete
>>confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your
>>power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No
>>one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all.
>>(Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)
>>
>>When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter
>>and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the
>>Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and
>>Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When
>>the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer
>>them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them
>>and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let
>>your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will
>>lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the
>>anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you.
>>(Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
>



03 Dec 2007 09:24:28
Jerry B. Altzman
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

on 2007-12-03 09:18 hal@nospam.org said the following:
> oh, right. Jesus of Nazareth. The Prince of Peace. Who turned all
> followers of Him (Christians) into pacifists and socialists. Yea,
> right.

It does not follow that Jesus wanted all his followers to be pacifists,
nor does it follow that he wanted all his followers to be socialists.

> now what's wrong with this picture?

Starting with the fact that you painted it, nothing more needs to be said.

> Hal

//jbaltz
--
jerry b. altzman jbaltz@altzman.com www.jbaltz.com
thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe.


03 Dec 2007 14:32:20
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:24:28 -0500, "Jerry B. Altzman"
<jbaltz@altzman.com > wrote:

>on 2007-12-03 09:18 hal@nospam.org said the following:
>> oh, right. Jesus of Nazareth. The Prince of Peace. Who turned all
>> followers of Him (Christians) into pacifists and socialists. Yea,
>> right.
>
>It does not follow that Jesus wanted all his followers to be pacifists,
>nor does it follow that he wanted all his followers to be socialists.

do tell, just what did he want his followers to do?

>
>> now what's wrong with this picture?
>
>Starting with the fact that you painted it, nothing more needs to be said.

I didn't paint it. Jesus did. And now his followers are pissing all
over it, and everything/everyone else.

Hal

>
>> Hal
>
>//jbaltz
>--
>jerry b. altzman jbaltz@altzman.com www.jbaltz.com
>thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe.



03 Dec 2007 08:48:06
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!


>>Starting with the fact that you painted it, nothing more needs to be said.
>
> I didn't paint it. Jesus did.

You speak for Jesus?

And now his followers are pissing all
> over it, and everything/everyone else.

No, they are just pissing on you.




03 Dec 2007 09:50:32
Jerry B. Altzman
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

on 2007-12-03 09:32 hal@nospam.org said the following:
> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:24:28 -0500, "Jerry B. Altzman"
> <jbaltz@altzman.com> wrote:
>> It does not follow that Jesus wanted all his followers to be pacifists,
>> nor does it follow that he wanted all his followers to be socialists.
> do tell, just what did he want his followers to do?

I'm not 100% sure -- I'm not an adherent of his teachings -- so it would
be out of place for me to say what they *are* in any definitive fashion.
However, given that I have read over the NT once or twice, and knowing
that you are pretty much a total idiot, I feel confident in asserting
that your characterization is incorrect.

If you really want to know, perhaps you could ask someone better versed,
like Chas?

>>> now what's wrong with this picture?
>> Starting with the fact that you painted it, nothing more needs to be said.
> I didn't paint it. Jesus did. And now his followers are pissing all

If you're going to quote Jesus, you've got to do it in red letters, and
you've got to use his words, not yours.

> Hal

//jbaltz
--
jerry b. altzman jbaltz@altzman.com www.jbaltz.com
thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe.


03 Dec 2007 10:21:51
David L. Burkhead
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

<hal@nospam.org > wrote in message
news:47541008.324523140@news.newsguy.com...
> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:49:25 GMT, heremenot <heremenot@omit.org>
> wrote:
>
> >All your references are OLD testament passages and therefore irrelevent.
> >The christian religion did not EXIST during the time of these writings.
> >The FIRST thing they teach you at sunday school (I'm told) is how
everything
> >CHANGED as a result of Christ and the NEW testament.
> >Have you NO understanding of history or religion at all?
>
> oh, right. Jesus of Nazareth. The Prince of Peace. Who turned all
> followers of Him (Christians) into pacifists and socialists. Yea,
> right.
>
> now what's wrong with this picture?

That you are spouting off about something you don't even begin to
understand.

"Pacifists" don't do that whole temple scene, beating a bunch of people with
a whip.

"Pacifists" don't say "He that has two cloaks among you, let him sell one
and buy a sword."

"Pacifists" don't say "I come not to bring peace, but a sword."

And what do you get when you combine "If my kingdom were of this world, then
would my followers fight" with "render unto Caesar [whose kingdom, it so
happens, _was_ "of this world"] that which is Caesars." He certainly didn't
criticize the faithful centurion for serving in Roman Legions.

"Prince of peace" is a label that _others_ applied to him, not one he
promoted himself.

Sure, there is that whole "turn the other cheek" thing, but that's against a
_slap_.

Sure, there was "put up thy sword into it's place, for all who live by the
sword will die by the sword." But note that he didn't say "get rid of the
sword" (which would, in fact, contradict the earlier exhortation to buy
one). Note also that there is a _whole_ lot of middle ground between "live
by the sword" and "pacifism."

--
David L. Burkhead "Dum Vivimus Vivamus"
mailto:dburkhead@sff.net "While we live, let us live."
My webcomic Cold Servings
http://www.coldservings.com-- Back from hiatus!
Updates Wednesdays





03 Dec 2007 10:25:06
David L. Burkhead
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

"Jerry B. Altzman" <jbaltz@altzman.com > wrote in message
news:KIU4j.31$BI5.21@newsfe09.lga...
> on 2007-12-03 09:32 hal@nospam.org said the following:
> > On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:24:28 -0500, "Jerry B. Altzman"
> > <jbaltz@altzman.com> wrote:
> >> It does not follow that Jesus wanted all his followers to be pacifists,
> >> nor does it follow that he wanted all his followers to be socialists.
> > do tell, just what did he want his followers to do?
>
> I'm not 100% sure -- I'm not an adherent of his teachings -- so it would
> be out of place for me to say what they *are* in any definitive fashion.
> However, given that I have read over the NT once or twice, and knowing
> that you are pretty much a total idiot, I feel confident in asserting
> that your characterization is incorrect.
>
> If you really want to know, perhaps you could ask someone better versed,
> like Chas?

Actually current and former adherents to Christianity have attempted to
correct his erroneous description of Jesus' teachings repeatedly. He
continues to rant on.

> >>> now what's wrong with this picture?
> >> Starting with the fact that you painted it, nothing more needs to be
said.
> > I didn't paint it. Jesus did. And now his followers are pissing all
>
> If you're going to quote Jesus, you've got to do it in red letters, and
> you've got to use his words, not yours.

You also have to look at the teaching in their entirety and not just
cherry-pick those portions that appear to support the view you want to
portray.

--
David L. Burkhead "Dum Vivimus Vivamus"
mailto:dburkhead@sff.net "While we live, let us live."
My webcomic Cold Servings
http://www.coldservings.com-- Back from hiatus!
Updates Wednesdays





03 Dec 2007 07:28:48
travisgod@aol.cominyrface
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 3, 10:21 am, "David L. Burkhead" <dburkh...@sff.net > wrote:
> <h...@nospam.org> wrote in message
>
> news:47541008.324523140@news.newsguy.com...
>
> > On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:49:25 GMT, heremenot <hereme...@omit.org>
> > wrote:
>
> > >All your references are OLD testament passages and therefore irrelevent.
> > >The christian religion did not EXIST during the time of these writings.
> > >The FIRST thing they teach you at sunday school (I'm told) is how
> everything
> > >CHANGED as a result of Christ and the NEW testament.
> > >Have you NO understanding of history or religion at all?
>
> > oh, right. Jesus of Nazareth. The Prince of Peace. Who turned all
> > followers of Him (Christians) into pacifists and socialists. Yea,
> > right.
>
> > now what's wrong with this picture?
>
> That you are spouting off about something you don't even begin to
> understand.
>
> "Pacifists" don't do that whole temple scene, beating a bunch of people with
> a whip.
>
> "Pacifists" don't say "He that has two cloaks among you, let him sell one
> and buy a sword."
>
> "Pacifists" don't say "I come not to bring peace, but a sword."
>
> And what do you get when you combine "If my kingdom were of this world, then
> would my followers fight" with "render unto Caesar [whose kingdom, it so
> happens, _was_ "of this world"] that which is Caesars." He certainly didn't
> criticize the faithful centurion for serving in Roman Legions.
>
> "Prince of peace" is a label that _others_ applied to him, not one he
> promoted himself.
>
> Sure, there is that whole "turn the other cheek" thing, but that's against a
> _slap_.
>
> Sure, there was "put up thy sword into it's place, for all who live by the
> sword will die by the sword." But note that he didn't say "get rid of the
> sword" (which would, in fact, contradict the earlier exhortation to buy
> one). Note also that there is a _whole_ lot of middle ground between "live
> by the sword" and "pacifism."
>
> --
> David L. Burkhead "Dum Vivimus Vivamus"
> mailto:dburkh...@sff.net "While we live, let us live."
> My webcomic Cold Servingshttp://www.coldservings.com--Back from hiatus!
> Updates Wednesdays

None of this is relevant.

So Christians aren't pacifists.

So, assume they don't even follow the Word. So what?

They are not demanding execution of a fucking teacher for blasphemy.
Christians who follow and those who do not - NONE are calling for
execution for blasphemy. Even Bush the Evangelist executes abortion
doctor killers.

So...what, if Christians more tightly adhered to the Word, they'd be
even LESS violent than now?? That is hal's point? That true
fundamentalist Christians would be pacifists? O...k....he's always
been best at shooting his own argument to death; I guess this is yet
another example of that.

Trav


03 Dec 2007 09:31:13
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

No fair using logic and facts. It confuses Hal.




03 Dec 2007 07:39:23
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 2, 10:11 pm, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com >
wrote:
> On Dec 2, 9:22 pm, Mark Goldberg <msgoldb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > heremenot wrote:
> > > All your references are OLD testament passages and therefore irrelevent.
> > > The christian religion did not EXIST during the time of these writings.
>
> > Your commentary misses the point. The passages and actual history are
> > not condemantory at all, compared to Islam. And that Torah describes the
> > problems of all those who were left to reside in that one and only land
> > that was claimed... and how much damage it did, due to the 'tolerance'
> > and justice that that land evidenced even within it's only place
> > claimed. As opposed to attacks upon everyone, else, everywhere else, in
> > the name of Mo's god.
>
> > And, the actual history's speak volumnes as to the difference between
> > them, and those who were commanded by one guy, to kill all infidels,
> > submit all infidels, across the earth. Your take on your christianity
> > did not accurately reflect either, nor your christianity thereafter....
>
> > The muslim religion did not exist then, but Mo' claims it preceeds the
> > Torah.... in fact, he had to invent a history to use those patriaches
> > and matriaches to paint a religous veneer since without it, there was
> > none, to be found in his screeds.
> > The point about looking at history, and theology and how that impacts
> > on real events today as evidence of the theology and the meaning of the
> > history, is the point in this thread about a poor well-meaning
> > schoolteacher who faces the homicidal swords of hatred of infidels, as
> > usual, and as has been so, for 1375 yrs.
>
> well, hal makes what passes for a point in his circle, about
> "equivalence" in the scriptures of the Torah and the Koran.
>
> OK...I'll stipulate to that, arguendo.
>
> The jooz and Christians regard those passages as ONLY RELEVANT to the
> time in which the commandments were made. There is NO mainstream
> cleric of either religion who advocates their relevance NOW. Some or
> even MANY Christians regard those passages as superseded by Christ,
> and HIS commandments as the central tenets of the religion and some of
> his command outright pacifism.
>
> If muslims wish to adopt a SIMILAR stance on their book, I am ALL FOR
> IT. Yes, be JUST LIKE the joos and christians and regard all the
> commandments to slay the infidels and rape the horses and copulate
> with young boys and prepubescent girls as relevant ONLY TO THE TIME in
> which the commandment was given. Let the jihad and the martyrdom be
> valid for 1000 years ago, not now.
>
> The problem with this is that the muslims very much regard those
> passages as relevant NOW, in 2007, still operative, still in force, a
> PRESENT commandment. There is no analog in joodaism or christianity.
> The jihad goes on, today, kill joos, kill christians, subjugate, and
> dominate. There was NO RIOT, armed or otherwise, by ANYONE over "piss
> Christ" or Sinead O'Connor or any of a number of OVERTLY blasphemous
> acts against christianity...yet a misunderstanding, an innocent
> mistake, turns into an "insult against islam," which is an actual
> codified CRIME in Sudan, and there are apparently a few thousand not
> just who believe, but are willing to brandish weapons and go into the
> streets to demand her EXECUTION?
>
> Nobody SANE could make a comparison between these 3 religions.

Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?

> People
> irreverently name all kinds of things jesus and god here in the
> USA...witness my very own pseudonym! Yet, not once, HAL, you fuckin
> moron, has anyone HERE called for my execution, despite their being,
> AS YOU CLAIM, Christian fundies!
>
> I have received not a SINGLE death threat for what could be viewed as
> blasphemy and which would get me QUICKLY put to death almost ANYWHERE
> in the muslim world.
>
> Trav- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



03 Dec 2007 07:58:09
YumYumPandaburger
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On 30 nov, 22:28, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com >
wrote:
> How much more peaceful can you get?
>
> Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
> that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
> was this bizarre.
>
> I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
> up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
> do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>
> Trav

Franly she should not have insulted the Prophet.


03 Dec 2007 12:44:33
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!



>> Nobody SANE could make a comparison between these 3 religions.
>
> Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>
Annapour is well known for being pro moslem and that is well
documented:http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Terror-Bosnia-Al-Qaida-Global/dp/0760330034




03 Dec 2007 12:45:48
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!



> Franly she should not have insulted the Prophet.
Gee neither should have Van Gogh or Irsi Ali, who still has bodyguards to
this day.




03 Dec 2007 10:51:25
travisgod@aol.cominyrface
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

> Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?

No. Did she equate legions of suicide bombers to a single, fringe
abortion doctor killer?

Trav


03 Dec 2007 13:00:13
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!


<travisgod@aol.com > wrote in message
news:a85f1956-0b39-4e50-94fb-28303423586e@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>
> No. Did she equate legions of suicide bombers to a single, fringe
> abortion doctor killer?
>
She gave it the old college try. She is known for being pro
Moslem:http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Terror-Bosnia-Al-Qaida-Global/dp/0760330034
Now there is a book that will pop your eyes open on CNN reporting.
So did Jessica Stern, who teaches about the subject of terrorism at Harvard,
only she had to admit they did not live up to the billing. You see the anti
abortion terrorists target only abortion centers and are pretty easy to
round up. They are very few too.
True terrorism is random. They target anyone - hence the name terrorist.
You can, if you wish look up Jessica Stern's, " Why Religious Militants
Kill." I think that is the title.




03 Dec 2007 14:26:28
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

LKruvant@gmail.com wrote:


>
> Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?

Yes... a hideous joke and a failure to tell the facts, or even
understand any of them..... the reviews were scathing.

Mark


03 Dec 2007 14:35:04
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Herbert Cannon wrote:

> <travisgod@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a85f1956-0b39-4e50-94fb-28303423586e@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>>
>>No. Did she equate legions of suicide bombers to a single, fringe
>>abortion doctor killer?
>>
>
> She gave it the old college try. She is known for being pro
> Moslem:http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Terror-Bosnia-Al-Qaida-Global/dp/0760330034
> Now there is a book that will pop your eyes open on CNN reporting.
> So did Jessica Stern, who teaches about the subject of terrorism at Harvard,
> only she had to admit they did not live up to the billing. You see the anti
> abortion terrorists target only abortion centers and are pretty easy to
> round up. They are very few too.
> True terrorism is random. They target anyone - hence the name terrorist.
> You can, if you wish look up Jessica Stern's, " Why Religious Militants
> Kill." I think that is the title.
>
>

One I'm trying to make time to read is Aaron Klein's new book. I wanted
to meet him two years ago, but missed the chance. He's a very brave guy,
and for those who've followed his reporting....he goes and talks to
Hamas, al-queda, fatah, et al, in their homes, and lives to tell about it.

His book "Schmoozing With Terrorists: From Hollywood to the Holy Land,
Jihadists Reveal Their Global Plans to a Jew! by Aaron Klein should be
very good.

Our problem is we don't actually listen to what they say, and then....
the notion that people have, the false notion


That if we just talked to them, they'd stop killing us or wanting to
kill us, would be evaporated, and we'd obtain far greater clarity and
understanding than we have up to now, allowed ourselves to have.

Mark


03 Dec 2007 12:15:46
Pierre Honeyman
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 3, 7:58 am, YumYumPandaburger <theoriginald...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On 30 nov, 22:28, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> > How much more peaceful can you get?
>
> > Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
> > that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
> > was this bizarre.
>
> > I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
> > up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
> > do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>
> > Trav
>
> Franly she should not have insulted the Prophet.

Frankly Islam should grow the fuck up and enter the 21st Century.

Pierre


03 Dec 2007 15:10:05
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!


> Frankly Islam should grow the fuck up and enter the 21st Century.

Aint gonna happen.




03 Dec 2007 14:25:36
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 3, 1:51 pm, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com >
wrote:
> > Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>
> No. Did she equate legions of suicide bombers to a single, fringe
> abortion doctor killer?
>
> Trav

Pretty hard to guess, too, huh? And it got tons of advertising from
CNN. LIke the 3 times i turned it on for 3 minutes, ads for it played


03 Dec 2007 22:24:00
Herbert Cannon
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!


<LKruvant@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:a3510e75-6159-4ac8-9ac3-304dc1a500e1@t47g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 3, 1:51 pm, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>> > Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>>
>> No. Did she equate legions of suicide bombers to a single, fringe
>> abortion doctor killer?
>>
>> Trav
>
> Pretty hard to guess, too, huh? And it got tons of advertising from
> CNN. LIke the 3 times i turned it on for 3 minutes, ads for it played

Not at all Annapour is very pro moslem and CNN reporting is very biased.
Check it out yourself
http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Terror-Bosnia-Al-Qaida-Global/dp/0760330034




04 Dec 2007 15:35:43
Fraser Johnston
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!


"Pierre Honeyman" <pearhed@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:59280518-3c8b-4f28-8ebd-c72139d10786@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 3, 7:58 am, YumYumPandaburger <theoriginald...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On 30 nov, 22:28, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > How much more peaceful can you get?
>>
>> > Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
>> > that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
>> > was this bizarre.
>>
>> > I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
>> > up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
>> > do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>>
>> > Trav
>>
>> Franly she should not have insulted the Prophet.
>
> Frankly Islam should grow the fuck up and enter the 21st Century.

Post of the week verging on post of the month.

Fraser





03 Dec 2007 23:42:59
YumYumPandaburger
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On 3 dec, 19:45, "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net > wrote:
> > Franly she should not have insulted the Prophet.
>
> Gee neither should have Van Gogh or Irsi Ali, who still has bodyguards to
> this day.

Woooooosssshhhhh !!!!

That was the sound of sarcasm flying high over your head :-)


04 Dec 2007 08:35:51
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Pierre Honeyman wrote:
> On Dec 3, 7:58 am, YumYumPandaburger <theoriginald...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 30 nov, 22:28, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>How much more peaceful can you get?
>>
>>>Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
>>>that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
>>>was this bizarre.
>>
>>>I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
>>>up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
>>>do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>>
>>>Trav
>>
>>Franly she should not have insulted the Prophet.
>
>
> Frankly Islam should grow the fuck up and enter the 21st Century.
>
> Pierre


What's wrong with this sentiment, idea, proposition, is this: the
exact opposite is what has been occuring.
And for example, dec 8th and 9th, there will be a big international
conference that will be dedicated too, you'd think, something on this
growing up order, right?

Wrong

It will be on Islamophobia....

And that is what has been engaged in it's entirety. The lie.
Imagine if in the late 30's, there was a movement that was dedicated to
the problem of 'Germanophobia' or the bigotry against epicanthal
peoples, or 'Neissanophobia'. Imagine if the world organizations all
supported this movement to correct the imaginary bigotry- why we'd have
gone on to a world war back then.....


That this is the issue... the creation of a false set of 'hatreds' and
'bigotry's', instead of focusing on the real issues, allows, propagates
and grows the hatreds of the original beliefs and practices of Islam,
because they go not only unchallenged but the 'taqquiy' and 'kitman'-
the deception against all infidels; the lying, is allowed to propagate,
unchallenged.

Imagine guffawing at their antics, in the later 30's, and thinking they
should just grow up..... what would have happened.

what did happen.

Mark


04 Dec 2007 05:58:00
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 3, 2:26 pm, Mark Goldberg <msgoldb...@optonline.net > wrote:
> LKruv...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>
> Yes... a hideous joke and a failure to tell the facts, or even
> understand any of them..... the reviews were scathing.
>
> Mark

It still got tons of backing from its network.


04 Dec 2007 08:52:11
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Nov 30, 4:28 pm, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com >
wrote:
> How much more peaceful can you get?
>
> Everywhere islam is, you see shit like this, stuff that is so insane
> that it is bordering on a caricature. You could not MAKE shit up that
> was this bizarre.
>
> I can already hear the Fourth Square morons like hal warming
> up...Sinead O'Connor and "Piss Christ" prove that Christians no longer
> do that shit. Maybe 1000 years ago.
>
> Trav

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN0447928720071204

Redbull gives Jesus wings caused NO violence or threats.


04 Dec 2007 08:55:48
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 3, 1:51 pm, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com >
wrote:
> > Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>
> No. Did she equate legions of suicide bombers to a single, fringe
> abortion doctor killer?
>
> Trav

Her next documentary covers rape, with male-victim, female-initiated
getting the preponderance of time


04 Dec 2007 22:49:33
roger taylor
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Pierre Honeyman writes
>Frankly Islam should grow the fuck up and enter the 21st Century.

It is. That's why the literalists are acting up - their cosy bigotries
are coming apart and they're scared shitless at the prospect of having
to think for themselves

Cheers


Roger Taylor
www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/ki.htm
www.alternativeparty.org.uk
www.2asisters.org/english/


04 Dec 2007 15:01:08
Pierre Honeyman
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

On Dec 4, 2:49 pm, roger taylor <r...@NoSpamhawklan.demon.co.uk >
wrote:
> Pierre Honeyman writes
>
> >Frankly Islam should grow the fuck up and enter the 21st Century.
>
> It is. That's why the literalists are acting up - their cosy bigotries
> are coming apart and they're scared shitless at the prospect of having
> to think for themselves

Even the "moderates" who went to the Sudan on her behalf still said
shit along the lines of "She didn't mean to insult the Prophet," iow
they still believed that what she did *was* an insult to the prophet
(and to Islam) and that if she *had* meant to they wouldn't have been
there.

Pierre


04 Dec 2007 18:52:33
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

LKruvant@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 3, 2:26 pm, Mark Goldberg <msgoldb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>LKruv...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>>
>>Yes... a hideous joke and a failure to tell the facts, or even
>>understand any of them..... the reviews were scathing.
>>
>>Mark
>
>
> It still got tons of backing from its network.

Oh yes.... in fact, I know people who were originally asked to be on the
program, and, who finding out what a hustle and bs series of propaganda
it was going to be, backed out, when they confronted the producers of
the series with the facts.

Mark


04 Dec 2007 19:01:14
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

LKruvant@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 3, 1:51 pm, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>Did you see Amanpour's "God's Warriors" ?
>>
>>No. Did she equate legions of suicide bombers to a single, fringe
>>abortion doctor killer?
>>
>>Trav
>
>
> Pretty hard to guess, too, huh? And it got tons of advertising from
> CNN. LIke the 3 times i turned it on for 3 minutes, ads for it played

Now skip back to 1938, and imagine if there were major media who almost
all were on board with the same bit: Germany and Japan, were old
venerable cultures and nations and it was bigotry to be so pointed about
their faults and all religions and cultures were the same and they
blared this out on TV, if there was one then, and you were told it was
discriminatory to believe otherwise..... well, it did happen like that,
in a much less pronounced fashion, and it took 50 million dead to end
the charade and madness.

mark


04 Dec 2007 19:04:36
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

Pierre Honeyman wrote:

> On Dec 4, 2:49 pm, roger taylor <r...@NoSpamhawklan.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Pierre Honeyman writes
>>
>>
>>>Frankly Islam should grow the fuck up and enter the 21st Century.
>>
>>It is. That's why the literalists are acting up - their cosy bigotries
>>are coming apart and they're scared shitless at the prospect of having
>>to think for themselves
>
>
> Even the "moderates" who went to the Sudan on her behalf still said
> shit along the lines of "She didn't mean to insult the Prophet," iow
> they still believed that what she did *was* an insult to the prophet
> (and to Islam) and that if she *had* meant to they wouldn't have been
> there.
>
> Pierre

Here's an aside to the mindless multicultural disease, which our
candidates are displaying in this regard.

On the same day as this disgrace to humanity took place- what do you
think, they opined about our stance in the 'muslim' world?

December 4, 2007

Democratic presidential candidates explain why Muslims hate us
Ethnocentrists.

“Because we are trusted so little” - Joe Biden
Because of “the bullying, selfish, abusive behavior” of President Bush
and his administration. - John Edwards

“John’s point is right, but I want to broaden it a little.” If you were
a Muslim overseas listening to Rudy Giuliani saying they want to come
over here and kill you, you would get the impression that we don’t want
to talk. - Barack Obama

“This has been a vacuum for a long time.” We don’t know their culture. -
Chris Dodd

And as Robert Spencer points out...."Why are they ethnocentrists?"
Because no one said anything like, "They hate us for reasons of their
own. They hate us for reasons arising from their core values." No,
instead they assume that their hatred for us is entirely our fault and
our responsibility.

It never enters their mind that Muslims might be free agents who act
on their own initiative, and not just as passive reactors to American
actions.


05 Dec 2007 09:36:23
Mark Goldberg
Re: Religion of peace demands execution of teacher!

roger taylor wrote:
> Pierre Honeyman writes
>
>>Frankly Islam should grow the fuck up and enter the 21st Century.
>
>
> It is. That's why the literalists are acting up - their cosy bigotries
> are coming apart and they're scared shitless at the prospect of having
> to think for themselves
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Roger Taylor
>
But the depth of the deceptions, and self deception is deep and they do
not want us to peer into the insides... at all. That too, has been going
on for 1400 yrs. Here's two articles, one over on your side of the pond,
and a fine review of a bullshit appeasement conference, designed to lie,
hide and dissimulate about the whole muslim reality and history.

Mark
-------------------------------


Daily Express

Wednesday 5th December 2007
NURSES TOLD TO TURN MUSLIMS’ BEDS TO MECCA

Tuesday December 4,2007
Paul Jeeves

OVERWORKED nurses have been ordered to stop all medical work five times
every day to move Muslim patients’ beds so they face towards Mecca.
The lengthy procedure, which also includes providing fresh bathing
water, is creating turmoil among overstretched staff on bustling NHS wards.

But despite the havoc, Mid- Yorkshire NHS Trust says the rule must be
instigated whenever possible to ensure Muslim patients have “a more
comfortable stay in hospital”.

And a taxpayer-funded training programme for several hundred hospital
staff has begun to ensure that all are familiar with the workings of the
Muslim faith.

The scheme is initially being run at Dewsbury and District Hospital,
West Yorkshire, but is set to be introduced at other hospitals in the
new year.

It comes on the back of the introduction in some NHS hospitals last year
of Burka-style gowns for Muslim patients who did not wish medical staff
to see their face while operating or caring for them.

Last night critics slammed the procedure and claimed the NHS would be
better off investing its resources in tackling killer superbugs such as
C.diff and MRSA.

One experienced nurse working at Dewsbury said: “It would be easier to
create Muslim-only wards with every bed facing Mecca than have to deal
with this.

“Some people might think it is not that big a deal, but we have a huge
Muslim population in Dewsbury and if we are having to turn dozens of
beds to face Mecca five times a day, plus provide running water for them
to wash before and after prayers, it is bound to impact on the essential
medical service we are supposed to be providing.

“Although the beds are designed to be moved, the bays are not really
suitable for having loads of beds moved around to face a different
direction, and despite our best efforts it does cause disruption for
non-Muslim patients.”

The changes have been instigated by Dewsbury and District Hospital’s
chief matron, Catherine Briggs, after she held a series of consultation
meetings with local Asian GPs, ethnic minority patients groups and
Muslim chaplain Ilyas Dalal to find out what staff could do to further
improve Muslim patients’ experience of the NHS.

In accordance with the rules of Islam, Muslims are required to pray five
times a day. The religion dictates they must wash themselves in running
water prior to prayer and must be facing in the direction of Mecca while
praying. Mecca, in Saudi Arabia, is revered as the birthplace of the
prophet Mohammed, who was born around 570AD.

Turning beds so they face towards Mecca was a key proposal put forward
during the hospital meetings, along with suggestions that Muslim women
should only be seen by female doctors.

Although the Trust, which also oversees hospitals in Wakefield and
Pontefract, could not guarantee women-only doctors, they agreed that
“wherever possible” specific patient requests would be carried out.

Mrs Briggs said: “Some of our former Muslim patients suggested that a
more informed understanding of the Islamic cultures would help staff to
further improve their service.”

Last night Conservative MP David Davies said: “Hospitals should be
concentrating on stopping the spread of infections than kow-towing to
the politically correct brigade.

“If the need for fresh running water is so great then perhaps family
members could be on hand to assist the already overworked medical staff.”



------------------------------
The International Islamophobia Conference
Hugh Fitzgerald,
12/5/07

It begins Saturday in Istanbul.
What a galere.

There is "Lord" Ahmed, fresh from Khartoum, no doubt expecting to be
basking in gratitude from the non-Muslims of Great Britain, for though
Al-Bashir had decided to free Gibbons before Ahmed and his traveling
companion (a Muslim woman, not married to Lord Ahmed, whom some fellow
Believer should not forget to punish for her crime) arrived.

There is the hysterical, ex-nun Karen Armstrong, who needs no
introduction, and who believes that Muhammad's essential function was
that of Peacemaker. She apparently still has not figured out that she
really must reread the Qur'an, and then find out all about the Hadith
(and how their "authenticity" has been ranked to Muslim satisfaction)
and the Sira -- for Aisha, the Khaybar Oasis, the decaptation of the
Banu Qurayza, the murders of Abu Afak and Asma bint Marwan are just of
the few of the things that Armstrong forgot to mention, much less to
comprehend, in her guide to nothing and nowhere, Islam: A Short History.
There is the crazed antisemite Norman Finkelstein, for whose parents --
Holocaust survivors -- we must feel sorry. About him nothing more need
be said except that at such gatherings one completely lunatic Jewish
person is de rigueur, and apparently Israel Shamir was otherwise occupied.

There is Tariq Ramadan, about whom see Frere Tariq, a book-length study
of his soft-voice taqiyya (but listen for the hiss underneath at all).
He is determined to make sure that the confusion and fog of war continue
while Muslims make themselves as comfortable as possible in the Lands of
the Infidels, settling in for the long haul and the demographic conquest
that, if nothing is done, is assured. It is Tariq Ramadan who promises a
new Islam, a "European Islam" that he carefully never defines. He never
explains what that "European Islam's" canonical texts will look like, or
how they will differ, those texts and then those tenets of Islam, from
the Islam we have all seen, and grown correctly to fear, in Saudi
Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Pakistan, indeed everywhere in the Muslim lands,
among all those Muslims who take their Islam seriously -- which is to
say, almost all of them, though they are very good at finding
westernized, plausible, smooth-talking representatives to fan out to the
capitals of the West to deny, obfuscate, and sometimes, in their own
persons, to offer a false view of Islam. Think of jolly Prince Bandar,
offering the port and cigars, joking with everyone from James Baker to
Colin Powell about "a little corruption" in Saudi Arabia, implying that
they were all men of the world, weren't they, and besides, Saudi Arabia
had its ruling class, and America had its ruling class as well -- and
Islam never came up, the primitive belief-system of the Al-Saud, and of
the country they named after themselves. It was overlooked, and still is
being overlooked, in dealings with Saudi Arabia.

There is John Esposito who no longer disguises, even in the name of his
fiefdom, with his henchman John Voll and others of that unseemly ilk,
the Arab money that he takes in such quantities. Years ago, toiling in
the humble vineyards of Holy Cross, and merely an apologist for Islam,
not the Big Entrepreneur he has become today, Esposito found his first
sugar daddy in a rich Lebanese contractor, an islamochristian. Now he
has progressed to the stage of cutting out the islamochristian middleman
and going directly to the Saudis, and has renamed his institute after
the one with the facial tic and the big-hearted -- what he wouldn't do
to protect the image of Islam -- wallet.
Lean, mean, jogging John. I can see him lapping the hippodrome, as he
skips some morning -- or is it the afternoon -- session? Or perhaps
he'll find a track right by the Bosporus, but they're not being put up
in the Ciragan Palace, you know, and perhaps security will prevent his
usual jog. That's okay for John -- there's the hotel's Western-style
exercise room. He can't miss his exercise, even if he does not have time
to find out, doesn't want to find out, what all the Western scholars of
Islam knew before the Great Inhibition set in. Even if he does not have
time to read Snouck Hurgronje or Henri Lammens, or several dozen other
Western scholars of Islam who studied and wrote before Said and
Orientalism, he has time for his daily exercise and ablutions. Why study
Islam any more at this point? He knows what he has to say, and how he
has to say it. It’s the same thing, over and over again. Oh, it’s true
that he had to put that little word “jihad” into a new, post-9/11
edition of his The Islamic Threat: Myth or Reality? because he had
mentioned it, in passing, only once in the first edition. But otherwise,
it’s the mixture as before, for the Apologist By Appointment To The
Court Of The Guardians Of The Two Noble Sanctuaries.

They do have their work cut out for them, don’t they? What with the
condemning to death of Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan, the man who
attempted to convert to Christianity, and the killings not of mere Jews
or Christians (in the West we can ignore that more readily) but of
Buddhists in southern Thailand, and the blowing-up of the Bamiyan
Buddhas, which raises the whole matter of non-Muslim statuary and other
art under Islam. Where did it all go, the Greco-Bactrian artifacts of
Afghanistan, and the Buddhist stupas all over Central Asia, and the
ancient libraries of Mandaean manuscripts burned up by Muslims in
“liberated” Iraq? The contents of those khutbas calling for such
destruction are now brought to our attention by the marvelous monitoring
and translation services of MEMRI, which monitoring and translation
services are making Muslim Arabs extremely nervous -- for now we
Infidels can eavesdrop on them as we never could before.

Most of the conference participants are Turks. The conference organizers
must be disappointed that the only non-Turks who would show up were
people of the distinctly low Armstrong-Finkelstein-Esposito level,
exhibiting various predictable signs of mediocrity or madness or
cupidity. The most famous of the Turks who is announced as coming is the
present Prime Minister of Turkey. Recip Tayyip Erdogan. It was Erdogan
who famously said that “the minarets are our bayonets, the domes our
helmets, the mosques our barracks.” The French scholar of Islam,
Anne-Marie Delcambre, found the phrase so telling that she chose to end
her useful short study, “L’Islam des interdits,” with that quote from
Erdogan, that demonstrates that mosques are not peaceful places of
contemplation and private worship, but places from which war is made on
the Infidels. "Les minarets sont nos baionnettes, les coupoles nos
casques et les mosquees nos casernes.” It was Erdogan who never
denounced the Turks who described American soldiers as behaving like
“Nazis.” Yes, we all remember how the Nazis handed out candy and soccer
balls to little Jewish children, don’t we? And how the Nazis also spent
a trillion dollars trying to establish the conditions of good government
and prosperity, building those schools and hospitals in Jewish areas all
over Europe? Erdogan also stood for that vicious movie, with the
American soldiers depicted on screen as those same Nazis, aided by a
Jewish doctor who harvests organs for the American market from innocent
Iraqis murdered by those American “Nazi” soldiers. It was Erdogan who in
1974, as Andrew Bostom discovered, directed and played the leading role
in Maskomya, a play put on in Turkey in the late 1970s, the very title
being an acronym for “Masons-Communists-Yahudi [Jews]”, and full of the
usual anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

Then there is the outwardly respectable -- he was chosen to be
Secretary-General of the O.I.C. -- Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu. He wears a suit
and a tie. He is soft-spoken. He considers himself to be an historian of
science, of “Islamic” science. Should we find anything objectionable?
Well, here is how Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu described the status of dhimmi
endured by Christians and Jews under Muslim rule (and by Zoroastrians
and Hindus, if they were lucky, and treated as honorary members of Ahl
al-Kitab, the People of the Book). He helpfully explained, in a recent
address to an audience of American Infidels, that the “privilege of
becoming a protected minority via an act of dhimmiship was given only to
the followers of a prophet to whom a sacred book was revealed.” So that
status of deliberate humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity
(for a Muslim mob or a Muslim ruler might decide to revoke this
“protected” status at any point, for all kinds of reasons -- an entire
community could be made to suffer if one person did not come through
with the Jizyah, or otherwise misbehaved according to the Muslim view)
is described by this “historian” as a “privilege” given to a “protected
minority.”

And what’s more, Ihsanoglu attempts, slyly, to describe these Christians
and Jews in Islamic terms, almost claiming them for Islam (just as,
according to Muslims, everyone is born a little Muslim, and only falls
away from the True Faith later on). He describes them as being lucky to
be treated as dhimmis, which was only possible because, like Muslims,
they are “the followers of a prophet to whom a sacred book was revealed”
-- thus likening Moses and Jesus, quite inaccurately, I’m afraid, to
Muhammad. Muhammad received his message over 23 turbulent years of
scribes and -- who knows? -- possibly scribal error. I won’t bother to
deal with Ekmeleddin Ihsnaoglu’s idea of what constitutes objective
history, but he is one more Muslim who has no clear idea of Western
standards in such matters. His last book, reviewed by the bizarre
Ziauddin Sarkar in the pages of “Nature” (how that was allowed is
another story), was basically not a history of Ottoman science, or
“Islamic” science, but an attempt to explain why such things as the
clock did not develop in the East but only in the West. You see, since
the early clocks were not sufficiently accurate for Muslims to rely on
them for knowing when it was time for prayers, they did not think it
worth using them, or trying to improve them. Such explanations do not
satisfy intelligent readers, but raise more disturbing questions about
the Muslim mindset than Dr. Ihsanoglu apparently realizes.
No doubt clever secular Turks, in Turkey and abroad, know many of the
names of the people showing up at this dismal event. Perhaps one of
them, in the know, will write in to tell us about the others in the same
galere, which I would name as the S.S. Naufragium, except that I’ve
already used up that name several times, in describing the Bush
Administration’s folly in Iraq, and its taking-on-water ship of state.