19 Jan 2004 10:23:30
johnlytai
What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

Hi,


I always hear from snooker players or commentators to use the term
'check side' from time to describe a particular kind of shot played in
a game. But what exactly is the meaning of 'Check Side'; and, how a
shot with 'check side' is supposed to be played.

Any ideas?

Thank you
John


19 Jan 2004 18:33:10
News Hosting
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

<alt.sport.snooker , johnlytai , johnlytai@hotmail.com >
<f3b5429b.0401191023.7860fcea@posting.google.com >
<19 Jan 2004 10:23:30 -0800 >

> I always hear from snooker players or commentators to use the term
> 'check side' from time to describe a particular kind of shot played in
> a game. But what exactly is the meaning of 'Check Side'; and, how a
> shot with 'check side' is supposed to be played.
>

SD done a check side demonstration just before christmas .

Coming off a cushion and instead of giving it a natural right spin - put
left spin on to curb the bounce off angle .

But needless to say SD explained it much better .


19 Jan 2004 18:40:54
GAG
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

<alt.sport.snooker , News Hosting , webmaster@emailphoneworld.co.uk >
<MPG.1a76332d1905401e9896ca@news.newshosting.com >
<Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:33:10 -0000 >

> SD done a check side demonstration just before christmas .
>
> Coming off a cushion and instead of giving it a natural right spin - put
> left spin on to curb the bounce off angle .
>
> But needless to say SD explained it much better .
>

Bloody gravity :-)


20 Jan 2004 01:24:54
Eurig Jones
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

when you ou hit a ball with the cueball, the cueball goes to one direction
after contact

so say it goes left...
if you hit the cueball with left spin, then it would be running side, if you
hit it with right side it would be called check side.

its as simple as that! :)

the reason for using side is to make angles wider or larger and you'd use
either check or running side whichever was appropriate.... but you probably
knew that :)

"johnlytai" <johnlytai@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:f3b5429b.0401191023.7860fcea@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
>
> I always hear from snooker players or commentators to use the term
> 'check side' from time to describe a particular kind of shot played in
> a game. But what exactly is the meaning of 'Check Side'; and, how a
> shot with 'check side' is supposed to be played.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thank you
> John




23 Jan 2004 15:01:06
Kevin Lawrence
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

"Check-side" is when you put side-spin against the natural angle in which
the cue-ball will follow - usually after a pot.

Example:

You are striking an object on the right side of it, and put left-side on the
cue-ball.

Kev


"johnlytai" <johnlytai@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:f3b5429b.0401191023.7860fcea@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
>
> I always hear from snooker players or commentators to use the term
> 'check side' from time to describe a particular kind of shot played in
> a game. But what exactly is the meaning of 'Check Side'; and, how a
> shot with 'check side' is supposed to be played.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thank you
> John




23 Jan 2004 17:53:14
Peter Ainsworth
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

I would have thought that someone would have got this one by now, but it
seems not, so I might as well explain:

The term has existed for a long time (before snooker) and refers to the
action of the cue ball after impact with a cushion. If it "checks" (stops,
and comes off at a steep angle) it is said to have carried "check side".
Similarly, if it runs on at a narrow angle, it is said to have "running
side". This is the key -- not necessarily which side is applied to the cue
ball !

It will be evident that the same shot, (typically, if cueing down the table
and applying right-hand side to strike the LHS of the object ball) will have
the effect of "running side" if the cue-ball first hits the side cushion,
and "check side" if it hits the end cushion.

For convenience, the definition described by Kevin is often used, but this
is not strictly correct as it depends whether the side would oppose or
assist the natural angle of rebound. If you want to make the cue-ball
"check" from the cushion, you apply whichever side would oppose this angle.
It is usually used at snooker to prevent the cue ball from travelling too
far back down the table, and at billiards to narrow the throw from the
object ball.

I trust that you are now sorry you asked the question in the first place :)


"Kevin Lawrence" <klawrence@cornwall.gov.uk > wrote in message
news:burcv3$mnu$1@newsfeed.th.ifl.net...
> "Check-side" is when you put side-spin against the natural angle in which
> the cue-ball will follow - usually after a pot.
>
> Example:
>
> You are striking an object on the right side of it, and put left-side on
the
> cue-ball.
>
> Kev
>
>
> "johnlytai" <johnlytai@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f3b5429b.0401191023.7860fcea@posting.google.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > I always hear from snooker players or commentators to use the term
> > 'check side' from time to describe a particular kind of shot played in
> > a game. But what exactly is the meaning of 'Check Side'; and, how a
> > shot with 'check side' is supposed to be played.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Thank you
> > John
>
>




23 Jan 2004 18:21:36
Karl Goddard
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

do you have any idea on the origin of the term, Peter? Or indeed which
publication first used the term?


"Peter Ainsworth" <p.ainsworth1@xxxntlworld.com > wrote in message
news:1edQb.26019$OA3.8123792@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> I would have thought that someone would have got this one by now, but it
> seems not, so I might as well explain:
>
> The term has existed for a long time (before snooker) and refers to the
> action of the cue ball after impact with a cushion. If it "checks" (stops,
> and comes off at a steep angle) it is said to have carried "check side".
> Similarly, if it runs on at a narrow angle, it is said to have "running
> side". This is the key -- not necessarily which side is applied to the cue
> ball !
>
> It will be evident that the same shot, (typically, if cueing down the
table
> and applying right-hand side to strike the LHS of the object ball) will
have
> the effect of "running side" if the cue-ball first hits the side cushion,
> and "check side" if it hits the end cushion.
>
> For convenience, the definition described by Kevin is often used, but this
> is not strictly correct as it depends whether the side would oppose or
> assist the natural angle of rebound. If you want to make the cue-ball
> "check" from the cushion, you apply whichever side would oppose this
angle.
> It is usually used at snooker to prevent the cue ball from travelling too
> far back down the table, and at billiards to narrow the throw from the
> object ball.
>
> I trust that you are now sorry you asked the question in the first place
:)
>
>
> "Kevin Lawrence" <klawrence@cornwall.gov.uk> wrote in message
> news:burcv3$mnu$1@newsfeed.th.ifl.net...
> > "Check-side" is when you put side-spin against the natural angle in
which
> > the cue-ball will follow - usually after a pot.
> >
> > Example:
> >
> > You are striking an object on the right side of it, and put left-side on
> the
> > cue-ball.
> >
> > Kev
> >
> >
> > "johnlytai" <johnlytai@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:f3b5429b.0401191023.7860fcea@posting.google.com...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >
> > > I always hear from snooker players or commentators to use the term
> > > 'check side' from time to describe a particular kind of shot played in
> > > a game. But what exactly is the meaning of 'Check Side'; and, how a
> > > shot with 'check side' is supposed to be played.
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > John
> >
> >
>
>




23 Jan 2004 18:46:31
Bob Jewett
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

Peter Ainsworth <p.ainsworth1@xxxntlworld.com > wrote:
...
> The term has existed for a long time (before snooker) and
> refers to the action of the cue ball after impact with a
> cushion. If it "checks" (stops, and comes off at a steep
> angle) it is said to have carried "check side".

In American terms, the side spin on the cushion is referred to as
"reverse" or "hold-up" or "kill" when it slows the cue ball down,
and "running" or "natural" when it aids the progress of the cue
ball. If you send the cue ball clockwise around the cushions,
right side would be "running english."

But I've also heard "check" used to describe the side spin with
respect to the ball-ball collision at snooker (as others have
done earlier in this thread) and when no cushion was involved.
In American usage, the spin used relative to the direction of
the cut is called "inside" (~= "check") and "outside" english.
Cutting an object ball to the left with left side spin would be
with "inside" english.

Were those snooker speakers/writers confused? Is there another
term in British English to describe the spin just with regard
to the cut angle and without regard to the cushions?

--

Bob Jewett
http://www.sfbilliards.com/



23 Jan 2004 20:12:38
Peter Ainsworth
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

Isn't the English language wonderful - constantly evolving.

The use of "check" to describe the collision of balls is something I have
not heard before, so may be a relatively modern term coined by TV snooker
commentators. "Side", (or "English" as used in one of our ex-colonies), was
called "twist" in the early 19th century -- all very logical.

I very much like the terms "inside" and "outside" English. They are so
concise, and much better to describe how to play these strokes than "check"
and "running" side. These descriptions have surely seen their time, and were
never very helpful in the first place. Any Coaches watching -- take note !



"Bob Jewett" <jewett@sfbilliards.com > wrote in message
news:1074883591.24165@emperor.labs.agilent.com...
> Peter Ainsworth <p.ainsworth1@xxxntlworld.com> wrote:
> ...
> > The term has existed for a long time (before snooker) and
> > refers to the action of the cue ball after impact with a
> > cushion. If it "checks" (stops, and comes off at a steep
> > angle) it is said to have carried "check side".
>
> In American terms, the side spin on the cushion is referred to as
> "reverse" or "hold-up" or "kill" when it slows the cue ball down,
> and "running" or "natural" when it aids the progress of the cue
> ball. If you send the cue ball clockwise around the cushions,
> right side would be "running english."
>
> But I've also heard "check" used to describe the side spin with
> respect to the ball-ball collision at snooker (as others have
> done earlier in this thread) and when no cushion was involved.
> In American usage, the spin used relative to the direction of
> the cut is called "inside" (~= "check") and "outside" english.
> Cutting an object ball to the left with left side spin would be
> with "inside" english.
>
> Were those snooker speakers/writers confused? Is there another
> term in British English to describe the spin just with regard
> to the cut angle and without regard to the cushions?
>
> --
>
> Bob Jewett
> http://www.sfbilliards.com/
>




23 Jan 2004 20:17:21
Peter Ainsworth
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

The origins of "check" and "running" side surely come from their visible
effects. The earliest reference I cannot immediately answer, although it
prompts me to continue digitising my library, which makes answering such
questions so much easier than relying on my failing memory :)


"Karl Goddard" <karlDOTgoddard@ntlworld.com > wrote in message
news:buron2$ldpd7$1@ID-207421.news.uni-berlin.de...
> do you have any idea on the origin of the term, Peter? Or indeed which
> publication first used the term?
>
>
> "Peter Ainsworth" <p.ainsworth1@xxxntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:1edQb.26019$OA3.8123792@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> > I would have thought that someone would have got this one by now, but it
> > seems not, so I might as well explain:
> >
> > The term has existed for a long time (before snooker) and refers to the
> > action of the cue ball after impact with a cushion. If it "checks"
(stops,
> > and comes off at a steep angle) it is said to have carried "check side".
> > Similarly, if it runs on at a narrow angle, it is said to have "running
> > side". This is the key -- not necessarily which side is applied to the
cue
> > ball !
> >
> > It will be evident that the same shot, (typically, if cueing down the
> table
> > and applying right-hand side to strike the LHS of the object ball) will
> have
> > the effect of "running side" if the cue-ball first hits the side
cushion,
> > and "check side" if it hits the end cushion.
> >
> > For convenience, the definition described by Kevin is often used, but
this
> > is not strictly correct as it depends whether the side would oppose or
> > assist the natural angle of rebound. If you want to make the cue-ball
> > "check" from the cushion, you apply whichever side would oppose this
> angle.
> > It is usually used at snooker to prevent the cue ball from travelling
too
> > far back down the table, and at billiards to narrow the throw from the
> > object ball.
> >
> > I trust that you are now sorry you asked the question in the first place
> :)
> >
> >
> > "Kevin Lawrence" <klawrence@cornwall.gov.uk> wrote in message
> > news:burcv3$mnu$1@newsfeed.th.ifl.net...
> > > "Check-side" is when you put side-spin against the natural angle in
> which
> > > the cue-ball will follow - usually after a pot.
> > >
> > > Example:
> > >
> > > You are striking an object on the right side of it, and put left-side
on
> > the
> > > cue-ball.
> > >
> > > Kev
> > >
> > >
> > > "johnlytai" <johnlytai@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:f3b5429b.0401191023.7860fcea@posting.google.com...
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I always hear from snooker players or commentators to use the term
> > > > 'check side' from time to describe a particular kind of shot played
in
> > > > a game. But what exactly is the meaning of 'Check Side'; and, how a
> > > > shot with 'check side' is supposed to be played.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you
> > > > John
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




24 Jan 2004 15:32:55
Peter Ainsworth
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

Just to follow up on your question regarding early published references to
the term "check side", I would say that it began to appear more frequently
in print towards the end of the 19th century and was certainly established
as common terminology at the start of the 20th century.

There is a reference in Stevenson's "Top of the Table Game" published in
1906 which states: "The pace of a ball may be accelerated or retarded by
the use of side operating on the cushions, the distinctive motions being
respectively known as running or check side".

If you pick up the one currently being offered on eBay, this quote comes
from page 42 :)


"Peter Ainsworth" <p.ainsworth1@xxxntlworld.com > wrote in message
news:HjfQb.26151$OA3.8203572@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> The origins of "check" and "running" side surely come from their visible
> effects. The earliest reference I cannot immediately answer, although it
> prompts me to continue digitising my library, which makes answering such
> questions so much easier than relying on my failing memory :)
>
>
> "Karl Goddard" <karlDOTgoddard@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:buron2$ldpd7$1@ID-207421.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > do you have any idea on the origin of the term, Peter? Or indeed which
> > publication first used the term?
> >
> >
> > "Peter Ainsworth" <p.ainsworth1@xxxntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:1edQb.26019$OA3.8123792@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> > > I would have thought that someone would have got this one by now, but
it
> > > seems not, so I might as well explain:
> > >
> > > The term has existed for a long time (before snooker) and refers to
the
> > > action of the cue ball after impact with a cushion. If it "checks"
> (stops,
> > > and comes off at a steep angle) it is said to have carried "check
side".
> > > Similarly, if it runs on at a narrow angle, it is said to have
"running
> > > side". This is the key -- not necessarily which side is applied to the
> cue
> > > ball !
> > >
> > > It will be evident that the same shot, (typically, if cueing down the
> > table
> > > and applying right-hand side to strike the LHS of the object ball)
will
> > have
> > > the effect of "running side" if the cue-ball first hits the side
> cushion,
> > > and "check side" if it hits the end cushion.
> > >
> > > For convenience, the definition described by Kevin is often used, but
> this
> > > is not strictly correct as it depends whether the side would oppose or
> > > assist the natural angle of rebound. If you want to make the cue-ball
> > > "check" from the cushion, you apply whichever side would oppose this
> > angle.
> > > It is usually used at snooker to prevent the cue ball from travelling
> too
> > > far back down the table, and at billiards to narrow the throw from the
> > > object ball.
> > >
> > > I trust that you are now sorry you asked the question in the first
place
> > :)
> > >
> > >
> > > "Kevin Lawrence" <klawrence@cornwall.gov.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:burcv3$mnu$1@newsfeed.th.ifl.net...
> > > > "Check-side" is when you put side-spin against the natural angle in
> > which
> > > > the cue-ball will follow - usually after a pot.
> > > >
> > > > Example:
> > > >
> > > > You are striking an object on the right side of it, and put
left-side
> on
> > > the
> > > > cue-ball.
> > > >
> > > > Kev
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "johnlytai" <johnlytai@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:f3b5429b.0401191023.7860fcea@posting.google.com...
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I always hear from snooker players or commentators to use the term
> > > > > 'check side' from time to describe a particular kind of shot
played
> in
> > > > > a game. But what exactly is the meaning of 'Check Side'; and, how
a
> > > > > shot with 'check side' is supposed to be played.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any ideas?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you
> > > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




25 Jan 2004 22:18:46
johnlytai
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

Hi


Judging from the initial responses and feedback given by you people, I
first thought I must be a real 'snooker dummy' to post up this topic
which worths no point for discussion. (Yes, I must admit that my
breaks are normally under 20 although I have been playing this game
for more than 20 years now ;-)).

Now I see it's not. As I expected, different people may have different
understanding about this term. Also, I was so surprised when I
searched around this newsgroup, I found no body had discussed about
this topic before.

Anyway, it is good to have it discussed here, or at least, to exchange
ideas and clear up some confusion about this game. Of cousre, apart
from the valuable input that you all have made, I think it would be
good if we can obtain some authorative definition from the
professionals; especially those 'side' master.


26 Jan 2004 18:28:57
PockitWeesil
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'


What makes you think that a snooker professional can give you an
"authorative" answer?

[Weesil proposes John Parrot as the least knowledgeable "expert"
ever put before the public]



On 25 Jan 2004 22:18:46 -0800, johnlytai@hotmail.com (johnlytai)
wrote:

: Hi
:
:
: Judging from the initial responses and feedback given by you people, I
: first thought I must be a real 'snooker dummy' to post up this topic
: which worths no point for discussion. (Yes, I must admit that my
: breaks are normally under 20 although I have been playing this game
: for more than 20 years now ;-)).
:
: Now I see it's not. As I expected, different people may have different
: understanding about this term. Also, I was so surprised when I
: searched around this newsgroup, I found no body had discussed about
: this topic before.
:
: Anyway, it is good to have it discussed here, or at least, to exchange
: ideas and clear up some confusion about this game. Of cousre, apart
: from the valuable input that you all have made, I think it would be
: good if we can obtain some authorative definition from the
: professionals; especially those 'side' master.



26 Jan 2004 18:37:01
Karl Goddard
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

would Weesil declare that Peter Ebdon could give an authoritative answer on
this particular subject?


"PockitWeesil" <grabbit@hole.com > wrote in message
news:uama109qn1kub2lrrf6bsn8ltnee7kr7qj@4ax.com...
>
> What makes you think that a snooker professional can give you an
> "authorative" answer?
>
> [Weesil proposes John Parrot as the least knowledgeable "expert"
> ever put before the public]




26 Jan 2004 21:39:36
johnlytai
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

Well, I think every snooker player may have his own designated
'expert' that he prefer to get an 'authortative' answer from if he
really cares to.

Hmm, what about to propose to the 'WPBSA' to compile a list of terms &
jargons that people may use in this game. So they can stick it up on
the wall side by side together with that 'Rules of Snooker' in each
snooker hall.




"Karl Goddard" <karlDOTgoddard@ntlworld.com > wrote in message news:<bv3mng$nd1gp$1@ID-207421.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> would Weesil declare that Peter Ebdon could give an authoritative answer on
> this particular subject?
>
>
> "PockitWeesil" <grabbit@hole.com> wrote in message
> news:uama109qn1kub2lrrf6bsn8ltnee7kr7qj@4ax.com...
> >
> > What makes you think that a snooker professional can give you an
> > "authorative" answer?
> >
> > [Weesil proposes John Parrot as the least knowledgeable "expert"
> > ever put before the public]


28 Jan 2004 00:06:09
Bob Jewett
Re: What is the meaning of 'Check-Side'

> Weesil proposes John Parrot as the least knowledgeable "expert"
> ever put before the public

I think that our dear old Weesil has led a very sheltered life.
Over on this side of the pond, we have specialists who are paid
great sums to know nothing and speak extensively on everything.

--

Bob Jewett
http://www.sfbilliards.com/