27 Jul 2004 22:46:52
Lollipop
Home Maze Matters!!!

ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
dial up, kinda frustrating)

for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


28 Jul 2004 05:12:32
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

There is no such thing as home-team advantage. The guy who came up
with that phrase was a sore loser. There are no "reasons" people lose,
only excuses. A true champion would defeat his enemies with his hands
tied behind his back.

Silly mortal.

Pt
HLQ
STFU


eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com >...
> ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> dial up, kinda frustrating)
>
> for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
> is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
> i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
> nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
> you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
> but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
> just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
> to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
> huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
> though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
> needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
> playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
> single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
> home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
> genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
> the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
> give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
> another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
> your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
> psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
> maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
> laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
> to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
> decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
> will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
> overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
> this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
> these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
> rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
> consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
> years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
> solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
> you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
> aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV


29 Jul 2004 04:17:42
SIFU MO
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

lollipop spake...

ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
dial up, kinda frustrating)

for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


>>>

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. - Voltaire

' m o


29 Jul 2004 06:21:52
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

A sign of the apocalypse!
(We agree on something...)

] MALICE [

"CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:e84be8f7.0407280412.6540e4e4@posting.google.com...
> There is no such thing as home-team advantage. The guy who came up
> with that phrase was a sore loser. There are no "reasons" people lose,
> only excuses. A true champion would defeat his enemies with his hands
> tied behind his back.
>
> Silly mortal.
>
> Pt
> HLQ
> STFU




29 Jul 2004 06:57:08
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Wow, this topic has been beaten to death, and it never accomplishes
anything.

If the newsgroup wasn't so dead, I think I'd just say you should go look
through google (almost 800 posts come up in response to "home maze").

But the newsgroup does suck of late, so what the hell...

The problem is you and Nate are arguing what you *think* would happen. The
situation you describe doesn't fit with my experience - mostly it's too
simplistic an analysis.

Of course, the problem with that is my experience may not match someone
else's - teams are different, players are different, circumstances are
different.

I went into the '98 Regionals expecting the same things you described - but
I never saw them happen. Like you said, it doesn't take a genius to figure
out good spots - by the time the games began, the good teams knew the good
spots. Back then, the NAC had a solo competition called the Jando Project,
and I did get to use my knowledge of the maze in that - but in the team
games, knowing the maze well enough that I could almost run in blackout
games without hitting walls - made no difference.

The same thing happened in Colorado Springs in '00 and '01 - not once did I
see a situation where I got an extra tag in because I knew the maze. We
were either battling it out in a tower, where everyone knew the critical
spots, or when we were on the floor, dogfighting away. Sure, on the floor,
I could have sneaked off and gotten a few tags on somebody from a location
they wouldn't have expected - if I was a moron that is. The one or two tags
I would have made if I did that would not have added up to the 10 or 12 I
got because is stayed in the dogfight.

Now, I will concede that just because I didn't see something doesn't mean
the situation was the same for everyone. There may have been players who
got extra tags in due to their knowledge of the maze. However, and this is
one of my big points that some people don't want to hear - there were other
factors that seemed to offset any such advantage.

When we played in Denver, as soon as our games were over, people went home.
The next day, they showed up in time for our first game. A few of us were
caught up in all kinds of hosting issues - selling t-shirts, helping people
with information about the location, etc. We were *not* a team. In the
Springs we got a hotel (even though we could have easily driven home each
night) and tried to make it, as much as possible, like we were on the road.
It helped a lot, but it wasn't exactly the same as being on the road.

When we're on the road, we live, eat and breath together. It's an entirely
different mindset - and at least for us, it's a HUGE difference.

So, to answer your main questions - one of the big offsetting factors we
experienced being at home was that we lost a lot of the team mentality - and
team mentality has no impact in solo games. Also, my experience was not
what you described when it comes to solo vs. team games, anyway. They
played differently, and knowing the maze wasn't a factor for me in the team
games, but was somewhat of a factor in solo games. (That's my experience,
I'm sure it could be different for teams who approach the game differently
than we do).

Finally, we might learn something from the NAC this year, but I doubt it.
For instance, last year, you beat Lincoln in the Regional, and they beat you
in the NAC. If the Regional had been in Lincoln, somebody would have argued
that proved home maze advantage was a factor. If the Regional had been in
Houston, somebody would have argued that proved home maze advantage didn't
exist. The reality, however, is such "proof" is illusory - teams do better
and worse between the Regionals and NAC all the time - regardless of the
location.

I think it's amazingly disrespectful to say a team only won because of home
maze advantage. But I don't completely mind - when someone does that, it
means they don't really know why they lost, but they came up with an
immediate justification that relieves them from having to correct anything.

I expect this hasn't changed your opinion one bit. Because if you read
those 800 posts on google, you'll find nobody ever changed anybody's mind on
the other side.

] MALICE [

"Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com...
> ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> dial up, kinda frustrating)
>
> for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
> is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
> i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
> nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
> you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
> but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
> just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
> to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
> huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
> though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
> needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
> playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
> single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
> home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
> genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
> the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
> give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
> another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
> your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
> psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
> maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
> laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
> to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
> decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
> will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
> overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
> this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
> these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
> rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
> consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
> years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
> solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
> you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
> aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV




29 Jul 2004 07:31:08
Y.T.
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0407280412.6540e4e4@posting.google.com >...
> There is no such thing as home-team advantage. The guy who came up
> with that phrase was a sore loser. There are no "reasons" people lose,
> only excuses. A true champion would defeat his enemies with his hands
> tied behind his back.
>
> Silly mortal.
>
> Pt
> HLQ
> STFU
>
>

crush your enemies,
see them driven before you,
and to hear the lamentation of the women!


29 Jul 2004 11:07:46
Solotron
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com >...
> ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> dial up, kinda frustrating) blah blah blah....
>

> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV



Your still sore after a month? Try some ben-GAY nick!


Solo


29 Jul 2004 19:21:28
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Solotron" <solo81@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:f1d85cab.0407291007.95c63b1@posting.google.com...
> eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message
news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com >...
> > ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> > a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> > dial up, kinda frustrating) blah blah blah....
> >
>
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
>
>
> Your still sore after a month? Try some ben-GAY nick!
>
>
> Solo

I guess if you truly believe that NRH "would never have beaten [Houston]
in a neutral maze...EVER" it would take longer than a month to get over it.
Of course, if you beat them in Rochester it may take longer to get over.
Although if you don't, then the Regional can be excused away. Isn't it
annoying how a win is so rarely a win in LQ?

] MALICE [





29 Jul 2004 14:21:01
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

prediction: rochester
> will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
> overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
> this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
> these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

cool it was fun beating houston twice at regionals 2003 not even in
the state of texas and still not advancing to nac;) losing to austin a
team who didn't even advance this year untill Lincoln decided not to
go.

But we would never EVER beat houston in a neutral maze EVER... no it
couldn't have happend... must have been a nightmare.

Lollipop is most likely right though, Houston is the greatest team
ever and if any team other than them ever won a tournament in their
home maze it was just a fluke.

Denver and Phoenix have had their share of "home maze advantages" over
the years. So who is really better? We may never know??? Denver has
won tournaments in their home maze or close to it havn't they? but
surely it was home maze advantage.

What is cool about all this is from now on there will always be jokes
about home maze advantage just like there are jokes about packs and
players ;)

EVILEMPIRE
NRH 2004


29 Jul 2004 14:27:43
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com >...
> ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> dial up, kinda frustrating)
>
> for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
> is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
> i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
> nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
> you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
> but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
> just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
> to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
> huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
> though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
> needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
> playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
> single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
> home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
> genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
> the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
> give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
> another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
> your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
> psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
> maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
> laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
> to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
> decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
> will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
> overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
> this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
> these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
> rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
> consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
> years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
> solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
> you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
> aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

sure there are solo aspects in a team game but I don't see the maze
making one player greater than the other. Pack sure ;) but maze no

When I think solo aspect of a team game I think player A vs Player B.
Now I would think the better player or pack :) will win in that 1v1
battle not the maze.


29 Jul 2004 17:50:48
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

This is a fucking novel... I hope you all enjoy reading ;-)

Regionals this year... It should have been a war in there... Rockford
shoulda given everyone a handy ass-whoopin... I know they have the talent...
there was just one problem... they didn't quite give EVERYONE a handy
ass-whoopin... in fact... they did to all but 2 teams (and they beat one of
them!). By the time prelims started... we knew the packs better than
Rockford did. And we played the maze better than anyone in that regional. I
think there are two reasons Rockford "underperformed". One... they all went
home at night after the games... team unity suffers when that happens, I
agree with Malice 100% on that. And two... they hadn't prepared for the type
of game that was played at Regionals... everyone I had talked to before-hand
was telling me it was going to be all right tower. And I'm betting Rockford
was prepared for that (in fact... the last game of finals we played in the
tower, and Brampton only won by 29 points... considering a lot of the
players on Westland and Rockford had given up by then and were fooling
around a bit, I'm betting we would have lost that game had both teams been
trying). But, most of the games were played spread throughout the maze...
and I'm not sure they had prepared... if one of those guys reads this they
can tell me how accurate I am... but I'm betting they practiced in that
right tower 90% of the time, because they felt that was the way the games
were going to go... and because of that, they had very little idea of how to
use the maze to their full advantage in a floor game. In the meantime, we
had explored the maze, and prepared for anything that might come our way.

The whole point, and thus, my opinion. Is that Maze Advantage is relative.
It depends on the maze, and how games turn out. It's very very easy to
prepare in mazes like Mississauga (Reference, Brampton 2001) and Clinton
(Reference, Westland 2003), where 99% of the games are played in the exact
same place (upstairs in Missi, back right corner in Clinton). But in a maze
like Rockford, where games can spread throughout the floor, into all 3
towers, into one tower, or any mixture of those... it's very hard for your
maze advantage to play fully into your hands. When you play in your maze all
the time, you generaly goto the same area and play there... and it's hard to
get out of the habit and prepare for other types of games.

Canton knew this I bet... but instead of preparing for what other teams
might do... they took it upon themselves to master their own game plan and
use their maze perfectly against the other teams in their region. They
played the floor, and other teams were forced to follow suit (as what
usually happens when 9 guys do one thing... the other teams want to be where
the points are :-p) The guys in Rochester have told me that most of the
games were tower, but Canton played the floor every game. They prepared for
that, knowing full well that they already knew their towers, and also
knowing that by the end of 2 or 3 practice games... so would every other
team in the region... so they prepared for a game that would give them an
advantage, and destroyed the region, beating a team they could not beat in a
tower or any other neutral maze by 900 points. I bet if Rochester had spent
some real time exploring the floor in their multiple practice sessions with
Canton... they would have performed much better.

I don't think Home maze advantage really exists in team games (I'll deal
with the differences at the end of my post). Which means the only advantage
you have is your pack list and (surprise surprise) your teamwork. Brampton
didn't win in Missi because they knew the maze better than Westland... they
won because they knew how to perfectly set up to provide the right support
for each player in the maze. It was teamwork and pack knowledge that won the
North region in 2001, ditto for 2003, and ditto for 2004. Not home maze
advantage. It could be different for other team's experience... but this is
what I've experienced. In 2003, we didn't discuss any positions in
Clinton... we sorta knew the packs (but our knowledge could have been a lot
better) and because of our lack of effort, Westland walked all over us... I
believe they were a better team and would have won either way... but if we
had put as much effort into figuring out the maze and working on our pack
list the way we did at Rockford... the North in 2003 could have been a hell
of a lot closer (like say... 600 points instead of 1450).

I think the only advantage Home Maze gives you is a psychological one...
many times the other teams in the region go in assuming they've already lost
because some good team is playing in their home maze... I know it goes
through their heads, we all thought it in Clinton and sure enough, Westland
crushed us. But this year, we KNEW that we were a better team than Rockford
and could beat them anywhere, anytime, any place... and we prepared, knowing
full well that the region was ours to lose. We ignored what Rockford 'might'
do... and found our own favourite positions to work with.

In my opinion, it's all about your mental state going into the region... If
teams go into the region assuming they're already at a disadvantage, they
start to focus more and more on how to counter or beat the Home-Team... and
focus less on how to use the maze and learning the packs. THAT is what
actually gives the Home team their advantage.

Nate, tell me how accurate I am... in 1998 you guys KNEW you were the best
team in the region... whether or not Denver had home maze advantage, didn't
really bother you guys... because you KNEW you were going to win either
way... you prepared by playing the maze, finding positions you liked and
learning the packs (were packs that big an issue back then?) and you didn't
spend too much time discussing what DENVER did... you spent most of your
time planning what YOU were going to do and how were going to win. You beat
Denver that year, because you didn't let the home maze "advantage" get into
your heads.

But these days, people are such firm believers in Home Maze Advantage, that
they let it get to them. In the meantime the Home Team is a firm believer as
well, and are confident and prepare. But when a team arrives that knows
they're a better team, and prepares 'properly'. Then, the best team wins, as
was proven in Rockford this year, and in Denver in 1998.

*breath*

Now, why I think home maze advantage plays a much more signifigant role in a
Solo game. Firstly... in a solo game you don't have your teammates getting
'in the way'. You're working for yourself and everything you do is focused
around earning more points on YOUR scorecard, not anyone else's. If your
team is playing in their home maze, it's true that you'll all know the best
spots and such. But it's no guarentee that all 9 players are your team will
be able to play those spots to their full potential. Lets face it, teams
have weak links, and teams have players with completely different styles...
it doesn't make sense to take a sniper out of his sniper-spot because that
position along the back wall of a tower needs support. Etc etc. But in a
Solo game... you just move from great spot to great spot until you find your
zone (in a Solo game, I find players tend to control AREAS as opposed to
standing in a position and helping their team) and score as much as you can.
You can't do that so well in a team-game... if your forced out of your great
position, you can't just move onto the next one... because one of your
teammates might be there already... or one of your teammates needs the
support you were providing from your original spot, or the other team
already controls that spot and you can't take it from them because if you
dog-fight the guy holding that position, you'll get tagged in the back by
his teammate. Knowing where that mirror is that no one else knows about
might earn you a few extra tags even in a team-game... but it won't put much
of a dent in your overall team score if the other team is positioned
properly, in fact you might not even make that tag because one of that guy's
teammates just tagged you in the back (and teams like Denver, Westland,
Houston, Brampton, etc. will be setup so that that is possible). But in a
Solo game... where people are fending for themselves... those extra tags
play a much bigger role. It's much much different to play a game where
someone will be able to call their teammate to tag you in the back while you
shoot off that mirror they didn't notice but you already knew about, as
opposed to a Solo game where they can't 'technicaly' call for help and get
you tagged in the back. Sure there might be someone behind you, but they
might be focused on other players in that game, and what do they care if you
tag that bastard near the mirror when they have 3 other targets to shoot at?
Which is THE main difference... in a Solo game... there's no backup for that
guy you're beating on... just other people looking for points who may or may
not try to tag you while they go about scoring as many points as they can.
But in a team-game... a teammate will very likely take the extra effort to
tag you and keep their teammate up and scoring. And since it only takes 2 or
3 games for an NAC team to learn a maze... they'll already be setup so that
your Solo potential is held back. And then you need to depend more on your
team and focus more on helping your team, and tricky mirrors and holes in
the wall don't help so much with that.
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!



"Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com...
> ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> dial up, kinda frustrating)
>
> for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
> is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
> i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
> nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
> you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
> but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
> just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
> to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
> huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
> though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
> needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
> playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
> single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
> home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
> genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
> the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
> give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
> another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
> your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
> psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
> maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
> laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
> to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
> decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
> will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
> overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
> this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
> these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
> rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
> consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
> years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
> solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
> you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
> aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV




29 Jul 2004 15:23:58
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

solo81@yahoo.com (Solotron) wrote in message news:<f1d85cab.0407291007.95c63b1@posting.google.com >...
> eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com>...
> > ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> > a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> > dial up, kinda frustrating) blah blah blah....
> >
>
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
>
>
> Your still sore after a month? Try some ben-GAY nick!
>
>
> Solo


Gracious winners indeed...


Pt
HLQ
STFU


29 Jul 2004 19:23:58
Lollipop
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

solo81@yahoo.com (Solotron) wrote in message news:<f1d85cab.0407291007.95c63b1@posting.google.com >...
> eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com>...
> > ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> > a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> > dial up, kinda frustrating) blah blah blah....
> >
>
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
>
>
> Your still sore after a month? Try some ben-GAY nick!
>
>
> Solo

did i not say congrats after you guys won? pretty sure i did- this
post, josh, is directed towards john and nate's argument on lqarena-
yes, i did say those things about you guys canton and rockford- just
prove me wrong in rochester- you guys did outplay us in regionals- i
was probably the first person to say congratulations- you outplayed us
in a maze VERY familiar to all of you- good job-if you guys beat us,
canton beats rochester and rockford beats westland- then i will admit
that i am wrong about all of this- but....if all three of these teams
outplace the other three teams, i dont see how people cant say that
home maze matters- i guess we will just wait and see in rochester

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


29 Jul 2004 19:29:58
Lollipop
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...

> I guess if you truly believe that NRH "would never have beaten [Houston]
> in a neutral maze...EVER" it would take longer than a month to get over it.
> Of course, if you beat them in Rochester it may take longer to get over.
> Although if you don't, then the Regional can be excused away. Isn't it
> annoying how a win is so rarely a win in LQ?
>
> ] MALICE [

you are wrong there- if they beat us in rochester- then i will say im
wrong about all the home maze shit and they are just better then we
are- plain and simple- just like i said lincoln was better than us
last year after they beat us at NAC in the semi's- i wasnt bitter
about that at all- they beat us- period- shit our whole team even hung
out with them after NAC sunday night back at the hotel- so it took me
a whole....well... no time at all to get over it-

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


29 Jul 2004 19:33:31
Lollipop
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0407291321.4591cda6@posting.google.com >...

> cool it was fun beating houston twice at regionals 2003 not even in
> the state of texas and still not advancing to nac;) losing to austin a
> team who didn't even advance this year untill Lincoln decided not to
> go.
>
> But we would never EVER beat houston in a neutral maze EVER... no it
> couldn't have happend... must have been a nightmare.
> EVILEMPIRE
> NRH 2004

in a triple quest buddy...

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


29 Jul 2004 19:33:57
Darren
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message news:EleOc.1601
>
> Nate, tell me how accurate I am... in 1998 you guys KNEW you were the best
> team in the region... whether or not Denver had home maze advantage,
didn't
> really bother you guys... because you KNEW you were going to win either
> way... you prepared by playing the maze, finding positions you liked and
> learning the packs (were packs that big an issue back then?) and you
didn't
> spend too much time discussing what DENVER did... you spent most of your
> time planning what YOU were going to do and how were going to win. You
beat
> Denver that year, because you didn't let the home maze "advantage" get
into
> your heads.


I didn't read your whole post but this part caught my eye because it
addressed Phoenix. No, we did not worry about Denver having home maze
advantage. We were extremely confident that we were the best team there and
would win, regardless.

That doesn't, however, mean that I don't believe that a team experiences
some sort of advantage when a tournament is in their own maze. To me, a
more logical argument would be the degree of advantage. I'm much more
willing to accept that it's not a large advantage, but I refuse to believe
that there's NO advantage.

I can assure you that when/if we play Rochester in Rochester this year, the
issue will come up in our meeting, but not as an excuse, just as something
to be aware of.

BTW........We still think back to Denver packs back in '98. Absolutely the
best packs we've ever played. The simply weren't a factor at all.

ZEBRA LQ PHOENIX




29 Jul 2004 20:49:16
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message news:<EleOc.1601$pc.165171@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> This is a fucking novel... I hope you all enjoy reading ;-)
>
> Regionals this year... It should have been a war in there... Rockford
> shoulda given everyone a handy ass-whoopin... I know they have the talent...
> there was just one problem... they didn't quite give EVERYONE a handy
> ass-whoopin... in fact... they did to all but 2 teams (and they beat one of
> them!). By the time prelims started... we knew the packs better than
> Rockford did. And we played the maze better than anyone in that regional. I
> think there are two reasons Rockford "underperformed". One... they all went
> home at night after the games... team unity suffers when that happens, I
> agree with Malice 100% on that. And two... they hadn't prepared for the type
> of game that was played at Regionals... everyone I had talked to before-hand
> was telling me it was going to be all right tower. And I'm betting Rockford
> was prepared for that (in fact... the last game of finals we played in the
> tower, and Brampton only won by 29 points... considering a lot of the
> players on Westland and Rockford had given up by then and were fooling
> around a bit, I'm betting we would have lost that game had both teams been
> trying). But, most of the games were played spread throughout the maze...
> and I'm not sure they had prepared... if one of those guys reads this they
> can tell me how accurate I am... but I'm betting they practiced in that
> right tower 90% of the time, because they felt that was the way the games
> were going to go... and because of that, they had very little idea of how to
> use the maze to their full advantage in a floor game. In the meantime, we
> had explored the maze, and prepared for anything that might come our way.
>
> The whole point, and thus, my opinion. Is that Maze Advantage is relative.
> It depends on the maze, and how games turn out. It's very very easy to
> prepare in mazes like Mississauga (Reference, Brampton 2001) and Clinton
> (Reference, Westland 2003), where 99% of the games are played in the exact
> same place (upstairs in Missi, back right corner in Clinton). But in a maze
> like Rockford, where games can spread throughout the floor, into all 3
> towers, into one tower, or any mixture of those... it's very hard for your
> maze advantage to play fully into your hands. When you play in your maze all
> the time, you generaly goto the same area and play there... and it's hard to
> get out of the habit and prepare for other types of games.
>
> Canton knew this I bet... but instead of preparing for what other teams
> might do... they took it upon themselves to master their own game plan and
> use their maze perfectly against the other teams in their region. They
> played the floor, and other teams were forced to follow suit (as what
> usually happens when 9 guys do one thing... the other teams want to be where
> the points are :-p) The guys in Rochester have told me that most of the
> games were tower, but Canton played the floor every game. They prepared for
> that, knowing full well that they already knew their towers, and also
> knowing that by the end of 2 or 3 practice games... so would every other
> team in the region... so they prepared for a game that would give them an
> advantage, and destroyed the region, beating a team they could not beat in a
> tower or any other neutral maze by 900 points. I bet if Rochester had spent
> some real time exploring the floor in their multiple practice sessions with
> Canton... they would have performed much better.
>
> I don't think Home maze advantage really exists in team games (I'll deal
> with the differences at the end of my post). Which means the only advantage
> you have is your pack list and (surprise surprise) your teamwork. Brampton
> didn't win in Missi because they knew the maze better than Westland... they
> won because they knew how to perfectly set up to provide the right support
> for each player in the maze. It was teamwork and pack knowledge that won the
> North region in 2001, ditto for 2003, and ditto for 2004. Not home maze
> advantage. It could be different for other team's experience... but this is
> what I've experienced. In 2003, we didn't discuss any positions in
> Clinton... we sorta knew the packs (but our knowledge could have been a lot
> better) and because of our lack of effort, Westland walked all over us... I
> believe they were a better team and would have won either way... but if we
> had put as much effort into figuring out the maze and working on our pack
> list the way we did at Rockford... the North in 2003 could have been a hell
> of a lot closer (like say... 600 points instead of 1450).
>
> I think the only advantage Home Maze gives you is a psychological one...
> many times the other teams in the region go in assuming they've already lost
> because some good team is playing in their home maze... I know it goes
> through their heads, we all thought it in Clinton and sure enough, Westland
> crushed us. But this year, we KNEW that we were a better team than Rockford
> and could beat them anywhere, anytime, any place... and we prepared, knowing
> full well that the region was ours to lose. We ignored what Rockford 'might'
> do... and found our own favourite positions to work with.
>
> In my opinion, it's all about your mental state going into the region... If
> teams go into the region assuming they're already at a disadvantage, they
> start to focus more and more on how to counter or beat the Home-Team... and
> focus less on how to use the maze and learning the packs. THAT is what
> actually gives the Home team their advantage.
>
> Nate, tell me how accurate I am... in 1998 you guys KNEW you were the best
> team in the region... whether or not Denver had home maze advantage, didn't
> really bother you guys... because you KNEW you were going to win either
> way... you prepared by playing the maze, finding positions you liked and
> learning the packs (were packs that big an issue back then?) and you didn't
> spend too much time discussing what DENVER did... you spent most of your
> time planning what YOU were going to do and how were going to win. You beat
> Denver that year, because you didn't let the home maze "advantage" get into
> your heads.
>
> But these days, people are such firm believers in Home Maze Advantage, that
> they let it get to them. In the meantime the Home Team is a firm believer as
> well, and are confident and prepare. But when a team arrives that knows
> they're a better team, and prepares 'properly'. Then, the best team wins, as
> was proven in Rockford this year, and in Denver in 1998.
>
> *breath*
>
> Now, why I think home maze advantage plays a much more signifigant role in a
> Solo game. Firstly... in a solo game you don't have your teammates getting
> 'in the way'. You're working for yourself and everything you do is focused
> around earning more points on YOUR scorecard, not anyone else's. If your
> team is playing in their home maze, it's true that you'll all know the best
> spots and such. But it's no guarentee that all 9 players are your team will
> be able to play those spots to their full potential. Lets face it, teams
> have weak links, and teams have players with completely different styles...
> it doesn't make sense to take a sniper out of his sniper-spot because that
> position along the back wall of a tower needs support. Etc etc. But in a
> Solo game... you just move from great spot to great spot until you find your
> zone (in a Solo game, I find players tend to control AREAS as opposed to
> standing in a position and helping their team) and score as much as you can.
> You can't do that so well in a team-game... if your forced out of your great
> position, you can't just move onto the next one... because one of your
> teammates might be there already... or one of your teammates needs the
> support you were providing from your original spot, or the other team
> already controls that spot and you can't take it from them because if you
> dog-fight the guy holding that position, you'll get tagged in the back by
> his teammate. Knowing where that mirror is that no one else knows about
> might earn you a few extra tags even in a team-game... but it won't put much
> of a dent in your overall team score if the other team is positioned
> properly, in fact you might not even make that tag because one of that guy's
> teammates just tagged you in the back (and teams like Denver, Westland,
> Houston, Brampton, etc. will be setup so that that is possible). But in a
> Solo game... where people are fending for themselves... those extra tags
> play a much bigger role. It's much much different to play a game where
> someone will be able to call their teammate to tag you in the back while you
> shoot off that mirror they didn't notice but you already knew about, as
> opposed to a Solo game where they can't 'technicaly' call for help and get
> you tagged in the back. Sure there might be someone behind you, but they
> might be focused on other players in that game, and what do they care if you
> tag that bastard near the mirror when they have 3 other targets to shoot at?
> Which is THE main difference... in a Solo game... there's no backup for that
> guy you're beating on... just other people looking for points who may or may
> not try to tag you while they go about scoring as many points as they can.
> But in a team-game... a teammate will very likely take the extra effort to
> tag you and keep their teammate up and scoring. And since it only takes 2 or
> 3 games for an NAC team to learn a maze... they'll already be setup so that
> your Solo potential is held back. And then you need to depend more on your
> team and focus more on helping your team, and tricky mirrors and holes in
> the wall don't help so much with that.
> --
> *$pam*
> LQ Brampton
> Two points better than you!!!
>
>
>
> "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com...
> > ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> > a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> > dial up, kinda frustrating)
> >
> > for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
> > is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
> > i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
> > nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
> > you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
> > but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
> > just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
> > to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
> > huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
> > though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
> > needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
> > playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
> > single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
> > home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
> > genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
> > the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
> > give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
> > another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
> > your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
> > psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
> > maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
> > laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
> > to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
> > decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
> > will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
> > overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
> > this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
> > these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
> > rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
> > consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
> > years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
> > solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
> > you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
> > aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.
> >
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV

I'm not reading that but I'm sure it was something about My daddy can
beat your daddy


29 Jul 2004 21:03:08
bluezilla
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com >...
> ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> dial up, kinda frustrating)
>
> for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
> is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
> i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
> nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
> you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
> but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
> just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
> to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
> huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
> though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
> needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
> playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
> single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
> home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
> genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
> the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
> give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
> another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
> your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
> psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
> maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
> laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
> to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
> decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
> will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
> overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
> this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
> these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
> rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
> consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
> years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
> solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
> you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
> aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

This may sound supprising coming from an NRH player but.... I think
lollipop is right. I used home maze to my advantage so much in
regionals. And i know the rest of my team did as well. We used the
maze very well and I think that is why we won regionals. Houston is a
way better team than us we just used the maze to our advantage Please
have mercy on our souls at NAC it will be greatly appreciated.

blueflame
only one tourney win with "home maze advantage"


30 Jul 2004 00:17:47
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Not even close... but good try :) My daddy can beat your daddy though (in
BW)
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"WhirlWind;" <Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:7c23d00f.0407291949.793ad5b6@posting.google.com...
> "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
news:<EleOc.1601$pc.165171@news20.bellglobal.com >...
> > This is a fucking novel... I hope you all enjoy reading ;-)
> >
> > Regionals this year... It should have been a war in there... Rockford
> > shoulda given everyone a handy ass-whoopin... I know they have the
talent...
> > there was just one problem... they didn't quite give EVERYONE a handy
> > ass-whoopin... in fact... they did to all but 2 teams (and they beat one
of
> > them!). By the time prelims started... we knew the packs better than
> > Rockford did. And we played the maze better than anyone in that
regional. I
> > think there are two reasons Rockford "underperformed". One... they all
went
> > home at night after the games... team unity suffers when that happens, I
> > agree with Malice 100% on that. And two... they hadn't prepared for the
type
> > of game that was played at Regionals... everyone I had talked to
before-hand
> > was telling me it was going to be all right tower. And I'm betting
Rockford
> > was prepared for that (in fact... the last game of finals we played in
the
> > tower, and Brampton only won by 29 points... considering a lot of the
> > players on Westland and Rockford had given up by then and were fooling
> > around a bit, I'm betting we would have lost that game had both teams
been
> > trying). But, most of the games were played spread throughout the
maze...
> > and I'm not sure they had prepared... if one of those guys reads this
they
> > can tell me how accurate I am... but I'm betting they practiced in that
> > right tower 90% of the time, because they felt that was the way the
games
> > were going to go... and because of that, they had very little idea of
how to
> > use the maze to their full advantage in a floor game. In the meantime,
we
> > had explored the maze, and prepared for anything that might come our
way.
> >
> > The whole point, and thus, my opinion. Is that Maze Advantage is
relative.
> > It depends on the maze, and how games turn out. It's very very easy to
> > prepare in mazes like Mississauga (Reference, Brampton 2001) and Clinton
> > (Reference, Westland 2003), where 99% of the games are played in the
exact
> > same place (upstairs in Missi, back right corner in Clinton). But in a
maze
> > like Rockford, where games can spread throughout the floor, into all 3
> > towers, into one tower, or any mixture of those... it's very hard for
your
> > maze advantage to play fully into your hands. When you play in your maze
all
> > the time, you generaly goto the same area and play there... and it's
hard to
> > get out of the habit and prepare for other types of games.
> >
> > Canton knew this I bet... but instead of preparing for what other teams
> > might do... they took it upon themselves to master their own game plan
and
> > use their maze perfectly against the other teams in their region. They
> > played the floor, and other teams were forced to follow suit (as what
> > usually happens when 9 guys do one thing... the other teams want to be
where
> > the points are :-p) The guys in Rochester have told me that most of the
> > games were tower, but Canton played the floor every game. They prepared
for
> > that, knowing full well that they already knew their towers, and also
> > knowing that by the end of 2 or 3 practice games... so would every other
> > team in the region... so they prepared for a game that would give them
an
> > advantage, and destroyed the region, beating a team they could not beat
in a
> > tower or any other neutral maze by 900 points. I bet if Rochester had
spent
> > some real time exploring the floor in their multiple practice sessions
with
> > Canton... they would have performed much better.
> >
> > I don't think Home maze advantage really exists in team games (I'll deal
> > with the differences at the end of my post). Which means the only
advantage
> > you have is your pack list and (surprise surprise) your teamwork.
Brampton
> > didn't win in Missi because they knew the maze better than Westland...
they
> > won because they knew how to perfectly set up to provide the right
support
> > for each player in the maze. It was teamwork and pack knowledge that won
the
> > North region in 2001, ditto for 2003, and ditto for 2004. Not home maze
> > advantage. It could be different for other team's experience... but this
is
> > what I've experienced. In 2003, we didn't discuss any positions in
> > Clinton... we sorta knew the packs (but our knowledge could have been a
lot
> > better) and because of our lack of effort, Westland walked all over
us... I
> > believe they were a better team and would have won either way... but if
we
> > had put as much effort into figuring out the maze and working on our
pack
> > list the way we did at Rockford... the North in 2003 could have been a
hell
> > of a lot closer (like say... 600 points instead of 1450).
> >
> > I think the only advantage Home Maze gives you is a psychological one...
> > many times the other teams in the region go in assuming they've already
lost
> > because some good team is playing in their home maze... I know it goes
> > through their heads, we all thought it in Clinton and sure enough,
Westland
> > crushed us. But this year, we KNEW that we were a better team than
Rockford
> > and could beat them anywhere, anytime, any place... and we prepared,
knowing
> > full well that the region was ours to lose. We ignored what Rockford
'might'
> > do... and found our own favourite positions to work with.
> >
> > In my opinion, it's all about your mental state going into the region...
If
> > teams go into the region assuming they're already at a disadvantage,
they
> > start to focus more and more on how to counter or beat the Home-Team...
and
> > focus less on how to use the maze and learning the packs. THAT is what
> > actually gives the Home team their advantage.
> >
> > Nate, tell me how accurate I am... in 1998 you guys KNEW you were the
best
> > team in the region... whether or not Denver had home maze advantage,
didn't
> > really bother you guys... because you KNEW you were going to win either
> > way... you prepared by playing the maze, finding positions you liked and
> > learning the packs (were packs that big an issue back then?) and you
didn't
> > spend too much time discussing what DENVER did... you spent most of your
> > time planning what YOU were going to do and how were going to win. You
beat
> > Denver that year, because you didn't let the home maze "advantage" get
into
> > your heads.
> >
> > But these days, people are such firm believers in Home Maze Advantage,
that
> > they let it get to them. In the meantime the Home Team is a firm
believer as
> > well, and are confident and prepare. But when a team arrives that knows
> > they're a better team, and prepares 'properly'. Then, the best team
wins, as
> > was proven in Rockford this year, and in Denver in 1998.
> >
> > *breath*
> >
> > Now, why I think home maze advantage plays a much more signifigant role
in a
> > Solo game. Firstly... in a solo game you don't have your teammates
getting
> > 'in the way'. You're working for yourself and everything you do is
focused
> > around earning more points on YOUR scorecard, not anyone else's. If your
> > team is playing in their home maze, it's true that you'll all know the
best
> > spots and such. But it's no guarentee that all 9 players are your team
will
> > be able to play those spots to their full potential. Lets face it, teams
> > have weak links, and teams have players with completely different
styles...
> > it doesn't make sense to take a sniper out of his sniper-spot because
that
> > position along the back wall of a tower needs support. Etc etc. But in a
> > Solo game... you just move from great spot to great spot until you find
your
> > zone (in a Solo game, I find players tend to control AREAS as opposed to
> > standing in a position and helping their team) and score as much as you
can.
> > You can't do that so well in a team-game... if your forced out of your
great
> > position, you can't just move onto the next one... because one of your
> > teammates might be there already... or one of your teammates needs the
> > support you were providing from your original spot, or the other team
> > already controls that spot and you can't take it from them because if
you
> > dog-fight the guy holding that position, you'll get tagged in the back
by
> > his teammate. Knowing where that mirror is that no one else knows about
> > might earn you a few extra tags even in a team-game... but it won't put
much
> > of a dent in your overall team score if the other team is positioned
> > properly, in fact you might not even make that tag because one of that
guy's
> > teammates just tagged you in the back (and teams like Denver, Westland,
> > Houston, Brampton, etc. will be setup so that that is possible). But in
a
> > Solo game... where people are fending for themselves... those extra tags
> > play a much bigger role. It's much much different to play a game where
> > someone will be able to call their teammate to tag you in the back while
you
> > shoot off that mirror they didn't notice but you already knew about, as
> > opposed to a Solo game where they can't 'technicaly' call for help and
get
> > you tagged in the back. Sure there might be someone behind you, but they
> > might be focused on other players in that game, and what do they care if
you
> > tag that bastard near the mirror when they have 3 other targets to shoot
at?
> > Which is THE main difference... in a Solo game... there's no backup for
that
> > guy you're beating on... just other people looking for points who may or
may
> > not try to tag you while they go about scoring as many points as they
can.
> > But in a team-game... a teammate will very likely take the extra effort
to
> > tag you and keep their teammate up and scoring. And since it only takes
2 or
> > 3 games for an NAC team to learn a maze... they'll already be setup so
that
> > your Solo potential is held back. And then you need to depend more on
your
> > team and focus more on helping your team, and tricky mirrors and holes
in
> > the wall don't help so much with that.
> > --
> > *$pam*
> > LQ Brampton
> > Two points better than you!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com...
> > > ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> > > a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> > > dial up, kinda frustrating)
> > >
> > > for those who dont know what all this is about, basically the argument
> > > is whether or not home maze gives an advantage or not- to no surprise
> > > i would have to disagree with malice on this argument and side with
> > > nate- john, from what i gathered in some of your posts on lq arena,
> > > you are basically saying that home maze matters only in solo games,
> > > but not team games- and thats where you and nate differ in opinions- i
> > > just wanna ask one question- are there not a lot of solo aspects even
> > > to a team game? personally, i think there are- i think home maze is a
> > > huge advantage in a team game also- i do see what you are saying
> > > though- but even in a team game, there are many times when a player
> > > needs to adapt or change a spot or something- now, if that player is
> > > playing in his home maze, he would know exactly what to do in EVERY
> > > single situation- it is like second nature to them-also the team whose
> > > home maze it is knows every single good spot- well, it doesnt take a
> > > genious to figure those out, all it takes is a couple of games, but,
> > > the team whose home maze it is will probably know which spots they can
> > > give up and where to place players to make a good spot become bad for
> > > another team and so on- there are just so many things that playing in
> > > your home maze brings- i agree with nate that alot of it is
> > > psychological as well- a player is just in his comfort zone in his own
> > > maze and knows what to do at all times- and adapting is a HUGE part of
> > > laserquest because anything can happen in any given game and you need
> > > to be ready for it-i guess we can wait till after nac to make a
> > > decision on whether or not home maze matters- prediction: rochester
> > > will beat canton overall....westland will beat rockford
> > > overall....houston and lincoln will beat NRH overall- my point is
> > > this- these 3 teams (rockford,NRH and Canton) would never have beaten
> > > these teams in a neutral maze...EVER...especially canton over
> > > rochester- we will see how canton does at NAC- maybe they can win 2
> > > consecutive regionals, but also not make NAC playoffs for 2 straight
> > > years, hehe- so john, do you not agree with me that there are many
> > > solo aspects to a team game as well- and if you do agree, then when
> > > you say that home maze matters in solo games, and there are solo
> > > aspects to a team game....then.....i think you get the point.
> > >
> > > Lollipop
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
>
> I'm not reading that but I'm sure it was something about My daddy can
> beat your daddy




30 Jul 2004 00:32:56
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

I think the only advantage home maze really gives you over the top teams in
LQ is a psychological advantage. Being able to play a maze and learn the
packs are things that can be done quickly and easily by all of the top 6
teams at last year's NAC at least, and possibly some of the lower ranked
teams as well. It all comes down to who plays best when it counts. If a team
loses, it's because they didn't prepare well enough to be the best team at
the tournament, or they were against Denver and didn't stand a chance in
hell anyway :-p.
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"Darren" <deq@cox.ne t > wrote in message
news:gsiOc.190$wC3.157@okepread07...
>
> "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message news:EleOc.1601
> >
> > Nate, tell me how accurate I am... in 1998 you guys KNEW you were the
best
> > team in the region... whether or not Denver had home maze advantage,
> didn't
> > really bother you guys... because you KNEW you were going to win either
> > way... you prepared by playing the maze, finding positions you liked and
> > learning the packs (were packs that big an issue back then?) and you
> didn't
> > spend too much time discussing what DENVER did... you spent most of your
> > time planning what YOU were going to do and how were going to win. You
> beat
> > Denver that year, because you didn't let the home maze "advantage" get
> into
> > your heads.
>
>
> I didn't read your whole post but this part caught my eye because it
> addressed Phoenix. No, we did not worry about Denver having home maze
> advantage. We were extremely confident that we were the best team there
and
> would win, regardless.
>
> That doesn't, however, mean that I don't believe that a team experiences
> some sort of advantage when a tournament is in their own maze. To me, a
> more logical argument would be the degree of advantage. I'm much more
> willing to accept that it's not a large advantage, but I refuse to believe
> that there's NO advantage.
>
> I can assure you that when/if we play Rochester in Rochester this year,
the
> issue will come up in our meeting, but not as an excuse, just as something
> to be aware of.
>
> BTW........We still think back to Denver packs back in '98. Absolutely
the
> best packs we've ever played. The simply weren't a factor at all.
>
> ZEBRA LQ PHOENIX
>
>




30 Jul 2004 04:59:23
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01 >...
>
> > I guess if you truly believe that NRH "would never have beaten
[Houston]
> > in a neutral maze...EVER" it would take longer than a month to get over
it.
> > Of course, if you beat them in Rochester it may take longer to get over.
> > Although if you don't, then the Regional can be excused away. Isn't it
> > annoying how a win is so rarely a win in LQ?
> >
> > ] MALICE [
>
> you are wrong there- if they beat us in rochester- then i will say im
> wrong about all the home maze shit and they are just better then we
> are- plain and simple- just like i said lincoln was better than us
> last year after they beat us at NAC in the semi's- i wasnt bitter
> about that at all- they beat us- period- shit our whole team even hung
> out with them after NAC sunday night back at the hotel- so it took me
> a whole....well... no time at all to get over it-
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

I guess that's possible, but I'm skeptical. Frankly, you seem to have an
excuse when you lose no matter what, and I don't recall ever seeing you
admit anyone who beat you was better than you. Some of your excuses for us
beating you have been pretty outlandish.

Before the Regional this year, you said of NRH:

"i hope to god houston plays you in a triple quest come regionals - i guess
it would have to be semis' cuz you fuckers have zero chance to make finals-
prepare to receive a fucking beating from houston- you wont even come within
1000 points of us..."

"you might advance- and thats a BIG might..."

"have fun at best of the rest again"

(and after predicting them to take SIXTH in the South) "quite possibly the
dumbest team in all of LQ- they all do ok in side tournies, but lets see how
they do this year...again...with games with 27 people in them and your brain
comes into play- thats where they just lose it"

Then when NRH beats you by almost 500 points in a triple quest - you
don't say "wow, was I ever wrong" - you blame their win on home maze
advantage and claim they "would never have beaten [you] in a neutral
maze...EVER"

I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another team
was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with some
kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external factor
caused your defeat.

] MALICE [





30 Jul 2004 05:16:42
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"bluezilla" <allmondjoy3@aol.com > wrote in message
news:a2884ba9.0407292003.408315c@posting.google.com...
>
> This may sound supprising coming from an NRH player but.... I think
> lollipop is right. I used home maze to my advantage so much in
> regionals. And i know the rest of my team did as well. We used the
> maze very well and I think that is why we won regionals.

I was really starting to wonder about this post until the next line...

> Houston is a
> way better team than us we just used the maze to our advantage Please
> have mercy on our souls at NAC it will be greatly appreciated.

I hate to break this to you guys (over and over again), but NOBODY is
going to overlook you at the NAC. A first place ranking makes you a target,
no matter who you are, and no matter how you try to talk yourselves down.

] MALICE [




30 Jul 2004 02:57:34
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

:( You replied to everyone but me, where's my support and backup man! I
thought we was krew!
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:_QkOc.213611$Oq2.184739@attbi_s52...
> "bluezilla" <allmondjoy3@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a2884ba9.0407292003.408315c@posting.google.com...
> >
> > This may sound supprising coming from an NRH player but.... I think
> > lollipop is right. I used home maze to my advantage so much in
> > regionals. And i know the rest of my team did as well. We used the
> > maze very well and I think that is why we won regionals.
>
> I was really starting to wonder about this post until the next line...
>
> > Houston is a
> > way better team than us we just used the maze to our advantage Please
> > have mercy on our souls at NAC it will be greatly appreciated.
>
> I hate to break this to you guys (over and over again), but NOBODY is
> going to overlook you at the NAC. A first place ranking makes you a
target,
> no matter who you are, and no matter how you try to talk yourselves down.
>
> ] MALICE [
>
>




30 Jul 2004 04:07:39
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54>...
> "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...

> I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another team
> was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with some
> kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external factor
> caused your defeat.
>
> ] MALICE [


Hey. Fucko.

I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
them what we said to them after semis.

Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.

You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
Irishman.)

Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.


Pt
HLQ
STFU
"Say it to my face. Please."


30 Jul 2004 04:46:19
Johann Von Satan
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

mmm.. BenGay.. it is like extra EXTRA strength KY warming lubricant :)
It does my colon good...


solo81@yahoo.com (Solotron) wrote in message news:<f1d85cab.0407291007.95c63b1@posting.google.com >...
> eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com>...
> > ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> > a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> > dial up, kinda frustrating) blah blah blah....
> >
>
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
>
>
> Your still sore after a month? Try some ben-GAY nick!
>
>
> Solo


30 Jul 2004 09:10:02
Blair Stephens
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

In article <0mmOc.23191$BU4.1223494@news20.bellglobal.com >,
jane.bates@symptico.ca says...
>
>
>:( You replied to everyone but me, where's my support and backup man! I
>thought we was krew!

Yous are krew but your post blew. Heh, sorry.



30 Jul 2004 11:27:06
bluezilla
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message news:<_QkOc.213611$Oq2.184739@attbi_s52>...
> "bluezilla" <allmondjoy3@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a2884ba9.0407292003.408315c@posting.google.com...
> >
> > This may sound supprising coming from an NRH player but.... I think
> > lollipop is right. I used home maze to my advantage so much in
> > regionals. And i know the rest of my team did as well. We used the
> > maze very well and I think that is why we won regionals.
>
> I was really starting to wonder about this post until the next line...
>
> > Houston is a
> > way better team than us we just used the maze to our advantage Please
> > have mercy on our souls at NAC it will be greatly appreciated.
>
> I hate to break this to you guys (over and over again), but NOBODY is
> going to overlook you at the NAC. A first place ranking makes you a target,
> no matter who you are, and no matter how you try to talk yourselves down.
>
> ] MALICE [


Ask anybody theres no way we could have beat houston or lincoln on an
even playing field. Its ok though. Both houston and lincoln are
extreamly good teams i dont mind being 2nd fiddle.

blueflame


30 Jul 2004 12:38:30
Night Stalker
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0407280412.6540e4e4@posting.google.com >...
> There is no such thing as home-team advantage. The guy who came up
> with that phrase was a sore loser. There are no "reasons" people lose,
> only excuses. A true champion would defeat his enemies with his hands
> tied behind his back.
>
> Silly mortal.
>
> Pt
> HLQ
> STFU

Homefield advatage is not as big a deal in LQ as it is in normal
systems where you tag someone and they go down. Sure not being used
to the equipment can give an advantage to certain players and playing
styles but not as much the arena setup, in LQ of course. In Darklight
for example it can make a huge difference which was illustrated at the
WC's this year where a team that had never even played the format very
much beat the 2-time defending champs all three games to take home the
title. In LQ arena advantage can mean +/- a few spots but in other
systems it is huge.

Night Stalker
Dallas Wolf


31 Jul 2004 04:09:14
Solotron
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

>
> you are wrong there- if they beat us in rochester- then i will say im
> wrong about all the home maze shit and they are just better then we
> are- plain and simple- just like i said lincoln was better than us
> last year after they beat us at NAC in the semi's- i wasnt bitter
> about that at all- they beat us- period- shit our whole team even hung
> out with them after NAC sunday night back at the hotel- so it took me
> a whole....well... no time at all to get over it-
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV




You sat in front 4 NRH players including myself and said

"I underestimated you guys" difectly after we won the triplequest.


But a month later you dig up and old and tired subject that has been
going on for years. I had respect for you finally right then and
there, but now you want to give NRH no credit at all. I call that two
faced. Im not going to sit here and listen to you whine about home
maze this and that, trying to take from my team (and not to mention
the teams that won the North and the East)
what they have dedicated themselves to accomplishing since Austin in
2002.

NRH previous years

2002 S. Reg 7th
2003 S. Reg 5th
2004 S. Reg 1st

We just got better.


See you in Rochester.


Solo
S.R.C 2004


31 Jul 2004 17:48:38
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:e84be8f7.0407300307.5e9b1a83@posting.google.com...
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54 >...
> > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...
>
> > I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another
team
> > was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with
some
> > kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external
factor
> > caused your defeat.
> >
> > ] MALICE [
>
>
> Hey. Fucko.
>
> I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
> them what we said to them after semis.
>
> Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
> you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.
>
> You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
> me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
> Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
> because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
> Irishman.)
>
> Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.
>
>
> Pt
> HLQ
> STFU
> "Say it to my face. Please."

Wow, what kind of half-assed, jacked-up challenge was that??

Go pull up some old posts... but you won't... but you will... but I
wouldn't ...

You've got me wriggling in the crushing grip of your clever challenge!
If I look up old posts, then you were right when you said I wouldn't, and if
I don't then you were right when I said I would. Dastardly!!

I do have a question, though. Why is it that it's just fine if certain
Houston players shit talk teams, tell them how crappy they are, tell them
how much they suck, and when those teams win, diminish their
accomplishments, talk down their wins, and find bizarre ways to discredit
them - BUT if someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck off??

] MALICE [




31 Jul 2004 17:48:40
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message
news:0mmOc.23191$BU4.1223494@news20.bellglobal.com...
> :( You replied to everyone but me, where's my support and backup man! I
> thought we was krew!
> --
> *$pam*
> LQ Brampton
> Two points better than you!!!

When someone who I expect to make a good point, does make a good point,
I'm not too big on using a whole post to write "Yeah, I agree!"

But, since I've already got a whole post going...

...about your last post - yeah, I agree!! :)

] MALICE [




31 Jul 2004 15:04:53
Lollipop
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

solo81@yahoo.com (Solotron) wrote in message news:<f1d85cab.0407310309.68bbac99@posting.google.com >...
> >
> > you are wrong there- if they beat us in rochester- then i will say im
> > wrong about all the home maze shit and they are just better then we
> > are- plain and simple- just like i said lincoln was better than us
> > last year after they beat us at NAC in the semi's- i wasnt bitter
> > about that at all- they beat us- period- shit our whole team even hung
> > out with them after NAC sunday night back at the hotel- so it took me
> > a whole....well... no time at all to get over it-
> >
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
>
>
>
> You sat in front 4 NRH players including myself and said
>
> "I underestimated you guys" difectly after we won the triplequest.
>
>
> But a month later you dig up and old and tired subject that has been
> going on for years. I had respect for you finally right then and
> there, but now you want to give NRH no credit at all. I call that two
> faced. Im not going to sit here and listen to you whine about home
> maze this and that, trying to take from my team (and not to mention
> the teams that won the North and the East)
> what they have dedicated themselves to accomplishing since Austin in
> 2002.
>
> NRH previous years
>
> 2002 S. Reg 7th
> 2003 S. Reg 5th
> 2004 S. Reg 1st
>
> We just got better.
>
>
> See you in Rochester.
>
>
> Solo
> S.R.C 2004

josh, i did underestimate you guys- i did not think you could beat us
at mesquite and you did- i thought we were good enough to overcome
playing in mesquite but we werent- maybe im getting my point across
the wrong way?

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


31 Jul 2004 22:32:14
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:a9ee449b.0407311404.2e11ab3f@posting.google.com...
>
> josh, i did underestimate you guys- i did not think you could beat us
> at mesquite and you did- i thought we were good enough to overcome
> playing in mesquite but we werent- maybe im getting my point across
> the wrong way?
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

Solo can speak for himself, but if it was me, I would have interpreted what
you said after the tournament to mean that you were actually giving my team
some respect, and that you were wrong when you thought we were so terrible
(won't advance, dumbest team in LQ, etc.), and that you now thought we were
actually good enough to win the Region.

But I would read your post above as saying that what you really meant was
just that your opinion of us before was SO low that you thought we weren't
even good enough to advance out of a maze where we had a big advantage.

If it was me, I would be offended.

If that's not what you meant, maybe you are getting your point across the
wrong way.

] MALICE [




31 Jul 2004 23:48:58
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:WXQOc.190648$%_6.124698@attbi_s01...
> "CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e84be8f7.0407300307.5e9b1a83@posting.google.com...
> > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54>...
> > > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...
> >
> > > I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another
> team
> > > was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with
> some
> > > kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external
> factor
> > > caused your defeat.
> > >
> > > ] MALICE [
> >
> >
> > Hey. Fucko.
> >
> > I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
> > them what we said to them after semis.
> >
> > Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
> > you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.
> >
> > You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
> > me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
> > Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
> > because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
> > Irishman.)
> >
> > Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.
> >
> >
> > Pt
> > HLQ
> > STFU
> > "Say it to my face. Please."
>
> Wow, what kind of half-assed, jacked-up challenge was that??
>
> Go pull up some old posts... but you won't... but you will... but I
> wouldn't ...
>
> You've got me wriggling in the crushing grip of your clever challenge!
> If I look up old posts, then you were right when you said I wouldn't, and
if
> I don't then you were right when I said I would. Dastardly!!
>
> I do have a question, though. Why is it that it's just fine if
certain
> Houston players shit talk teams, tell them how crappy they are, tell them
> how much they suck, and when those teams win, diminish their
> accomplishments, talk down their wins, and find bizarre ways to discredit
> them - BUT if someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck
off??
>
> ] MALICE [
>

Not someone. Just you.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




31 Jul 2004 20:57:55
Lollipop
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message news:<O5VOc.194172$IQ4.64962@attbi_s02>...
> "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:a9ee449b.0407311404.2e11ab3f@posting.google.com...
> >
> > josh, i did underestimate you guys- i did not think you could beat us
> > at mesquite and you did- i thought we were good enough to overcome
> > playing in mesquite but we werent- maybe im getting my point across
> > the wrong way?
> >
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> Solo can speak for himself, but if it was me, I would have interpreted what
> you said after the tournament to mean that you were actually giving my team
> some respect, and that you were wrong when you thought we were so terrible
> (won't advance, dumbest team in LQ, etc.), and that you now thought we were
> actually good enough to win the Region.
>
> But I would read your post above as saying that what you really meant was
> just that your opinion of us before was SO low that you thought we weren't
> even good enough to advance out of a maze where we had a big advantage.
>
> If it was me, I would be offended.
>
> If that's not what you meant, maybe you are getting your point across the
> wrong way.
>
> ] MALICE [


maybe.

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


01 Aug 2004 16:46:22
enforcer
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

wrong wrong and wrong

any of the practice games I played with roch before regionals were on
the floor.

I don't remember coming up with any strategy before hand in fact if we
had done that we most likely would have done worse. The people on this
team can gasp actually figure out the game as it happens...well at least
it our maze any ways.

I truly wish we would have taken the roch boys to fairview or akron
during the weekend for a few games there so I as well as everyone else
in the lq world would truly know how this would have turned out.

I thought everyone of the roch boys behaved like true champions all
weekend. They didn't complain one time about us having HMA or anything
for that point they went in played their best game and congratulated us
on winning not for being at home but for being the better team at that
point in time.

The thing that truly won us the region wasn't HMA it was the fact that
every game that rochester played their low score was usually between 20
and 100 points were ours usually me was in a range of 100 to 300. I
could be wrong on the exact scores here but anyone....Malice Shade....
that really cares enough to look it up could correct me if I am wrong.
Now if I was scoring 100 points a game better then their lowest score
all weekend when you get into the finals that's an advantage of 300
points of the 900 we won by. While their top score beat ours all weekend
the middle and the bottom outperformed theirs.

Can I personally or my team in a whole pull this off in their maze that
remains to be seen for a month yet. I am not sure at this point if we
will take the same team in sept but if we do and we actually put forth
the effort to try I think we will do well. Yes we do know our packs
better then anyone else but most teams had the figured out well by game
1 let alone playoffs. Our packs are lq but all but like 2 of our team
plays better at sq so they will love it in rochester. I am not saying we
will win it by far but I bet we place better then we did last year
since we don't have a bad bottom end and the fact that we will actually
try this year.

That's right I said it last year after game 2 our strategy (only put the
top 3 or 4 packs into the tower with everyone and let the others try to
shoot into the tower which left the other 3 down the whole game) wasn't
working and we didn't put as much into game 3. After game 3 the top 3
pack players were pissed off at ourselves and our team and really didn't
give a shit and quit trying. So in other words last years performance
was not what that team could have done. We most likely would have at
least went to playoffs. We played lincoln the first night we got into
town at nrh and they said we were playing kick ass and if we kept it up
we would likely make consoles unfortunately we didn't keep it together.
The fact that our last pack was hiding all six games didn't help us
because he was scoring like 50 points a game and that didn't do much for
our total scores.

"*$pam*" wrote:
>
> Canton knew this I bet... but instead of preparing for what other teams
> might do... they took it upon themselves to master their own game plan and
> use their maze perfectly against the other teams in their region. They
> played the floor, and other teams were forced to follow suit (as what
> usually happens when 9 guys do one thing... the other teams want to be where
> the points are :-p) The guys in Rochester have told me that most of the
> games were tower, but Canton played the floor every game. They prepared for
> that, knowing full well that they already knew their towers, and also
> knowing that by the end of 2 or 3 practice games... so would every other
> team in the region... so they prepared for a game that would give them an
> advantage, and destroyed the region, beating a team they could not beat in a
> tower or any other neutral maze by 900 points. I bet if Rochester had spent
> some real time exploring the floor in their multiple practice sessions with
> Canton... they would have performed much better.
>
>

--
Enforcer
Team Canton since 98
03 regionals 1st
Ya I know I still play for a scrub east team


01 Aug 2004 14:12:07
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407291833.70bf4c3c@posting.google.com >...
> Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0407291321.4591cda6@posting.google.com>...
>
> > cool it was fun beating houston twice at regionals 2003 not even in
> > the state of texas and still not advancing to nac;) losing to austin a
> > team who didn't even advance this year untill Lincoln decided not to
> > go.
> >
> > But we would never EVER beat houston in a neutral maze EVER... no it
> > couldn't have happend... must have been a nightmare.
> > EVILEMPIRE
> > NRH 2004
>
> in a triple quest buddy...
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

Well come up to Mesquite for a scrimage??? We'll go 9 vs 9 ??? Triple
quest?? I'm pretty sure we would beat you even worse if it is 9v9
cause player for player you can't match us. But I know you wouldn't
want to play us in mesquite again because it would be "home maze" lol.
We have like 4 home mazes.....
Sorry if I sound a bit cocky but thats just my opinion and I know you
guys have yours also -_-;
I still love you though don't worry :)


01 Aug 2004 21:41:40
bluezilla
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408011312.13374364@posting.google.com >...
> eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407291833.70bf4c3c@posting.google.com>...
> > Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0407291321.4591cda6@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > > cool it was fun beating houston twice at regionals 2003 not even in
> > > the state of texas and still not advancing to nac;) losing to austin a
> > > team who didn't even advance this year untill Lincoln decided not to
> > > go.
> > >
> > > But we would never EVER beat houston in a neutral maze EVER... no it
> > > couldn't have happend... must have been a nightmare.
> > > EVILEMPIRE
> > > NRH 2004
> >
> > in a triple quest buddy...
> >
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> Well come up to Mesquite for a scrimage??? We'll go 9 vs 9 ??? Triple
> quest?? I'm pretty sure we would beat you even worse if it is 9v9
> cause player for player you can't match us. But I know you wouldn't
> want to play us in mesquite again because it would be "home maze" lol.
> We have like 4 home mazes.....
> Sorry if I sound a bit cocky but thats just my opinion and I know you
> guys have yours also -_-;
> I still love you though don't worry :)

Eww it would be fun to do a 9v9 matchup with houston. Just have everybody man up.
slaughter vs. capri
darkangel vs. lollipop
sifumo vs. colombo
blueflame vs. cherrybomb
twiztid vs. aviator
roaddog vs. frusterated
whirlwind vs. uleb
darksoul vs. anomoly or periscope?

OMG lets do it! I think i know who would come out on top :)

blueflame


01 Aug 2004 21:45:36
bluezilla
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408011312.13374364@posting.google.com >...
> eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407291833.70bf4c3c@posting.google.com>...
> > Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0407291321.4591cda6@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > > cool it was fun beating houston twice at regionals 2003 not even in
> > > the state of texas and still not advancing to nac;) losing to austin a
> > > team who didn't even advance this year untill Lincoln decided not to
> > > go.
> > >
> > > But we would never EVER beat houston in a neutral maze EVER... no it
> > > couldn't have happend... must have been a nightmare.
> > > EVILEMPIRE
> > > NRH 2004
> >
> > in a triple quest buddy...
> >
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> Well come up to Mesquite for a scrimage??? We'll go 9 vs 9 ??? Triple
> quest?? I'm pretty sure we would beat you even worse if it is 9v9
> cause player for player you can't match us. But I know you wouldn't
> want to play us in mesquite again because it would be "home maze" lol.
> We have like 4 home mazes.....
> Sorry if I sound a bit cocky but thats just my opinion and I know you
> guys have yours also -_-;
> I still love you though don't worry :)

damn forgot solo. Put him on anybody it wont matter :)

blueflame


02 Aug 2004 00:02:47
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


> A sign of the apocalypse!
> (We agree on something...)
>
> ] MALICE [

hahaha




02 Aug 2004 00:03:26
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


> Homefield advatage is not as big a deal in LQ as it is in normal
> systems where you tag someone and they go down. Sure not being used
> to the equipment can give an advantage to certain players and playing
> styles but not as much the arena setup, in LQ of course. In Darklight
> for example it can make a huge difference which was illustrated at the
> WC's this year where a team that had never even played the format very
> much beat the 2-time defending champs all three games to take home the
> title. In LQ arena advantage can mean +/- a few spots but in other
> systems it is huge.
>
> Night Stalker
> Dallas Wolf

Try SQ, instead of LQ. Dudes go down.


0 0 7




02 Aug 2004 07:03:23
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"bluezilla" <allmondjoy3@aol.com > wrote in message
news:a2884ba9.0408012041.18bbe44@posting.google.com...
> Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message
news:<7c23d00f.0408011312.13374364@posting.google.com >...
> > eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message
news:<a9ee449b.0407291833.70bf4c3c@posting.google.com >...
> > > Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message
news:<7c23d00f.0407291321.4591cda6@posting.google.com >...
> > >
> > > > cool it was fun beating houston twice at regionals 2003 not even in
> > > > the state of texas and still not advancing to nac;) losing to austin
a
> > > > team who didn't even advance this year untill Lincoln decided not to
> > > > go.
> > > >
> > > > But we would never EVER beat houston in a neutral maze EVER... no it
> > > > couldn't have happend... must have been a nightmare.
> > > > EVILEMPIRE
> > > > NRH 2004
> > >
> > > in a triple quest buddy...
> > >
> > > Lollipop
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
> >
> > Well come up to Mesquite for a scrimage??? We'll go 9 vs 9 ??? Triple
> > quest?? I'm pretty sure we would beat you even worse if it is 9v9
> > cause player for player you can't match us. But I know you wouldn't
> > want to play us in mesquite again because it would be "home maze" lol.
> > We have like 4 home mazes.....
> > Sorry if I sound a bit cocky but thats just my opinion and I know you
> > guys have yours also -_-;
> > I still love you though don't worry :)
>
> Eww it would be fun to do a 9v9 matchup with houston. Just have everybody
man up.
> slaughter vs. capri
> darkangel vs. lollipop
> sifumo vs. colombo
> blueflame vs. cherrybomb
> twiztid vs. aviator
> roaddog vs. frusterated
> whirlwind vs. uleb
> darksoul vs. anomoly or periscope?
>
> OMG lets do it! I think i know who would come out on top :)
>
> blueflame

I don't think Mo wants any of this!!!!

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




02 Aug 2004 00:07:41
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:KdWOc.492$J56.172@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:WXQOc.190648$%_6.124698@attbi_s01...
> > "CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:e84be8f7.0407300307.5e9b1a83@posting.google.com...
> > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54>...
> > > > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...
> > >
> > > > I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another
> > team
> > > > was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up
with
> > some
> > > > kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external
> > factor
> > > > caused your defeat.
> > > >
> > > > ] MALICE [
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey. Fucko.
> > >
> > > I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
> > > them what we said to them after semis.
> > >
> > > Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
> > > you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.
> > >
> > > You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
> > > me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
> > > Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
> > > because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
> > > Irishman.)
> > >
> > > Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.
> > >
> > >
> > > Pt
> > > HLQ
> > > STFU
> > > "Say it to my face. Please."
> >
> > Wow, what kind of half-assed, jacked-up challenge was that??
> >
> > Go pull up some old posts... but you won't... but you will... but I
> > wouldn't ...
> >
> > You've got me wriggling in the crushing grip of your clever
challenge!
> > If I look up old posts, then you were right when you said I wouldn't,
and
> if
> > I don't then you were right when I said I would. Dastardly!!
> >
> > I do have a question, though. Why is it that it's just fine if
> certain
> > Houston players shit talk teams, tell them how crappy they are, tell
them
> > how much they suck, and when those teams win, diminish their
> > accomplishments, talk down their wins, and find bizarre ways to
discredit
> > them - BUT if someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck
> off??
> >
> > ] MALICE [
> >
>
> Not someone. Just you.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV


Haha. No doubt.




02 Aug 2004 00:18:44
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> did i not say congrats after you guys won? pretty sure i did- this
> post, josh, is directed towards john and nate's argument on lqarena-
> yes, i did say those things about you guys canton and rockford- just
> prove me wrong in rochester- you guys did outplay us in regionals- i
> was probably the first person to say congratulations- you outplayed us
> in a maze VERY familiar to all of you- good job-if you guys beat us,
> canton beats rochester and rockford beats westland- then i will admit
> that i am wrong about all of this- but....if all three of these teams
> outplace the other three teams, i dont see how people cant say that
> home maze matters- i guess we will just wait and see in rochester
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston

That's basically it right there. If Canton does better than Rochester, NRH
does better than Houston, and Rockford does better than Westland - you've
got nothing to worry about on the "home-maze advantage" issue. All things
being equal, it's very possible that those teams are just superior, and
didn't even need home maze advantage....but I need to see them play on
neutral ground before I can judge that.

I share the same predictions, however, that those regional champs (and 2nd
place team Rockford) will not beat the same teams they beat at regionals.

I agree with Darren, that there may be a slight psychological disadvantage
associated with having a tournament in your own city, but I don't see
anything to prove that this would out-weigh the overwhelming benefits that
come with it.

Winning iNAC in back to back years, and admitting that home maze advantage
sure helped a lot, is one thing. Seeing that teams consistantly perform
better in their own maze is another. To me, it's just fucking obvious, and
the only people I've seen that really argue against it, are the ones who've
had the advantage, but downplay it because they didn't win the tourney.
Unfortunately, you can't overcome superior talent, but like someone said
earlier in this thread - if two teams are equal in skill, the home team will
win most of the time. That, is an advantage.


0 0 7




02 Aug 2004 00:19:59
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


> Denver and Phoenix have had their share of "home maze advantages" over
> the years. So who is really better? We may never know??? Denver has
> won tournaments in their home maze or close to it havn't they? but
> surely it was home maze advantage.

> EVILEMPIRE
> NRH 2004

When did we get a home maze advantage? Friggin iNAC? lol.


0 0 7




02 Aug 2004 00:24:32
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


> This may sound supprising coming from an NRH player but.... I think
> lollipop is right. I used home maze to my advantage so much in
> regionals. And i know the rest of my team did as well. We used the
> maze very well and I think that is why we won regionals. Houston is a
> way better team than us we just used the maze to our advantage Please
> have mercy on our souls at NAC it will be greatly appreciated.
>
> blueflame

<rolls eyes >




02 Aug 2004 13:33:22
Big Country
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

enforcer <enforcer@neo.rr.com > wrote in message news:<410D1E11.DB531C42@neo.rr.com>...
> I thought everyone of the roch boys behaved like true champions all
> weekend. They didn't complain one time
>
> The thing that truly won us the region wasn't HMA it was the fact that
> every game that rochester played their low score was usually between 20
> and 100 points were ours usually me was in a range of 100 to 300. I
> could be wrong on the exact scores here but anyone....Malice Shade....
> that really cares enough to look it up could correct me if I am wrong.
> Now if I was scoring 100 points a game better then their lowest score
> all weekend when you get into the finals that's an advantage of 300
> points of the 900 we won by. While their top score beat ours all weekend
> the middle and the bottom outperformed theirs.
>
> Can I personally or my team in a whole pull this off in their maze that
> remains to be seen for a month yet. I am not sure at this point if we
> will take the same team in sept but if we do and we actually put forth
> the effort to try I think we will do well. Yes we do know our packs
> better then anyone else but most teams had the figured out well by game
> 1 let alone playoffs. Our packs are lq but all but like 2 of our team
> plays better at sq so they will love it in rochester. I am not saying we
> will win it by far but I bet we place better then we did last year
> since we don't have a bad bottom end and the fact that we will actually
> try this year.
>
> That's right I said it last year after game 2 our strategy (only put the
> top 3 or 4 packs into the tower with everyone and let the others try to
> shoot into the tower which left the other 3 down the whole game) wasn't
> working and we didn't put as much into game 3. After game 3 the top 3
> pack players were pissed off at ourselves and our team and really didn't
> give a shit and quit trying. So in other words last years performance
> was not what that team could have done. We most likely would have at
> least went to playoffs. We played lincoln the first night we got into
> town at nrh and they said we were playing kick ass and if we kept it up
> we would likely make consoles unfortunately we didn't keep it together.
> The fact that our last pack was hiding all six games didn't help us
> because he was scoring like 50 points a game and that didn't do much for
> our total scores.
>
> "*$pam*" wrote:
> >
> > Canton knew this I bet... but instead of preparing for what other teams
> > might do... they took it upon themselves to master their own game plan and
> > use their maze perfectly against the other teams in their region. They
> > played the floor, and other teams were forced to follow suit (as what
> > usually happens when 9 guys do one thing... the other teams want to be where
> > the points are :-p) The guys in Rochester have told me that most of the
> > games were tower, but Canton played the floor every game. They prepared for
> > that, knowing full well that they already knew their towers, and also
> > knowing that by the end of 2 or 3 practice games... so would every other
> > team in the region... so they prepared for a game that would give them an
> > advantage, and destroyed the region, beating a team they could not beat in a
> > tower or any other neutral maze by 900 points. I bet if Rochester had spent
> > some real time exploring the floor in their multiple practice sessions with
> > Canton... they would have performed much better.
> >
> >

Actually, Enforcer, you are wrong. While walking over to LQ with
Rochester they were complaining about how gay you are/were, so i hate
to burst your bubble. j/k

I can attest to what you are saying Akron played Canton for 2 months
straight in practice games and pretty much you guys went wherever we
wanted to play, i don't remember you guys dictating a single game. As
for the whole tower thing, Akron only had one game in a tower, and
that was the first game of playoffs against VB. Now we played Canton
in a tower during one of our many practice games and i remember us
getting our asses whipped, so if Canton really wanted to score a ton
of points they would have forced teams into towers. Canton just kinda
reacted all weekend to what other teams were doing.

BigCountry
Akron '03 '04


02 Aug 2004 20:31:27
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

allmondjoy3@aol.com (bluezilla) wrote in message news:<a2884ba9.0408012041.18bbe44@posting.google.com >...
> Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408011312.13374364@posting.google.com>...
> > eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407291833.70bf4c3c@posting.google.com>...
> > > Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0407291321.4591cda6@posting.google.com>...
> > >
> > > > cool it was fun beating houston twice at regionals 2003 not even in
> > > > the state of texas and still not advancing to nac;) losing to austin a
> > > > team who didn't even advance this year untill Lincoln decided not to
> > > > go.
> > > >
> > > > But we would never EVER beat houston in a neutral maze EVER... no it
> > > > couldn't have happend... must have been a nightmare.
> > > > EVILEMPIRE
> > > > NRH 2004
> > >
> > > in a triple quest buddy...
> > >
> > > Lollipop
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
> >
> > Well come up to Mesquite for a scrimage??? We'll go 9 vs 9 ??? Triple
> > quest?? I'm pretty sure we would beat you even worse if it is 9v9
> > cause player for player you can't match us. But I know you wouldn't
> > want to play us in mesquite again because it would be "home maze" lol.
> > We have like 4 home mazes.....
> > Sorry if I sound a bit cocky but thats just my opinion and I know you
> > guys have yours also -_-;
> > I still love you though don't worry :)
>
> Eww it would be fun to do a 9v9 matchup with houston. Just have everybody man up.
> slaughter vs. capri
> darkangel vs. lollipop
> sifumo vs. colombo
> blueflame vs. cherrybomb
> twiztid vs. aviator
> roaddog vs. frusterated
> whirlwind vs. uleb
> darksoul vs. anomoly or periscope?
>
> OMG lets do it! I think i know who would come out on top :)
>
> blueflame

If i play vs Uleb he will try to grab my butt.... why do we gotta be
matched up ? T_T


03 Aug 2004 03:53:37
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:lVlPc.5842$go.4788@fed1read07...

> I agree with Darren, that there may be a slight psychological disadvantage
> associated with having a tournament in your own city, but I don't see
> anything to prove that this would out-weigh the overwhelming benefits that
> come with it.

Nor have you shown anything to prove there is an actual advantage (let
alone an overwhelming one), other than to declare it to be so. 0 0 7 has
spoken, it is law.

It's interesting, however, the way your position moves around - with
you, sometimes it's a slight advantage, sometimes it's an overwhelming
advantage. I guess the fact that even you can't define how much of an
advantage it is kind of undermines the reliability of your proclomations.

> Winning iNAC in back to back years,

Odd that so few other people from Phoenix actually even qualified.
You'd think such a massive advantage would help everyone from the center.
(Odd, also, that you were behind early on, and when particular people
started to go in the tank, you jumped up to the front. I don't think that
kind of home maze advantage works in the NAC).

> Seeing that teams consistantly perform
> better in their own maze is another.

That's an interesting claim, since (despite many, many attempts) you
could never actually show that to be true. Although you do consistently
claim that teams perform better in their own maze, that's not really the
same thing as seeing it. But, then again, people with paranoia see
conspiracies in all situations - you see home maze advantage around every
corner.

> the only people I've seen that really argue against it, are the ones
who've
> had the advantage,

LOL, in other words, the people who dispute it are the ones who (unlike you)
have actually experienced the situation for themselves and would know what
they're talking about. The only people I see having a fit about it are
people with huge egos who can't admit that another team was actually better
than they were, and need some excuse.

] MALICE [




03 Aug 2004 04:07:40
Malice
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

I think you made excellent points across the board (although they'll
probably fall on deaf ears) - but one comment in particular really rang out.

"enforcer" <enforcer@neo.rr.com > wrote in message
news:410D1E11.DB531C42@neo.rr.com...

> I thought everyone of the roch boys behaved like true champions all
> weekend. They didn't complain one time about us having HMA or anything
> for that point they went in played their best game and congratulated us
> on winning not for being at home but for being the better team at that
> point in time.

That's what bugs me the most about this whole debate.

Why aren't more people like that in our sport. The whole HMA argument
is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike slap in the face to teams who won.
It seems incredibly immature, egotistical and childish.

I have so much more respect for Rochester (although I already respect
their talent a lot) after reading your comment.

It's a shame a few egos prevent some people from saying -
congratulations, you were the better team, we'll try to get you next time.
Instead, it's - you really weren't better than us, you only won because of
[insert trumped up, whiney excuse].

Congratulations on winning the East - and, from everything I've read,
winning honorably, which means even more. Good luck next month.

] MALICE [




03 Aug 2004 04:25:28
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:KdWOc.492$J56.172@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Not someone. Just you.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

And what's the point? How does it make it any more acceptable to shit
talk teams, and denigrate their accomplishments because of the person who
points out that you did it? How is there anything wrong with them pointing
it out if you actually did what they said? How do you feel justified at
getting upset at them, for pointing out something you actually did?

You may not like me for pointing these things out (and other reasons),
but if the things I point out actually happened, you have only the person
who did them to blame.

] MALICE [




03 Aug 2004 04:27:48
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:YsEPc.204012$IQ4.15111@attbi_s02...
> "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> news:KdWOc.492$J56.172@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > Not someone. Just you.
> >
> > Colombo
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> And what's the point? How does it make it any more acceptable to shit
> talk teams, and denigrate their accomplishments because of the person who
> points out that you did it? How is there anything wrong with them
pointing
> it out if you actually did what they said? How do you feel justified at
> getting upset at them, for pointing out something you actually did?
>
> You may not like me for pointing these things out (and other reasons),
> but if the things I point out actually happened, you have only the person
> who did them to blame.
>
> ] MALICE [
>
>

You said if "someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck off??"

To which I said: Not someone, just you, meaning, I believe you are the only
person he has told to fuck off. Nothing more, nothing less.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




03 Aug 2004 04:29:37
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:5%DPc.201588$%_6.77783@attbi_s01...
> "Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:lVlPc.5842$go.4788@fed1read07...
>
> > I agree with Darren, that there may be a slight psychological
disadvantage
> > associated with having a tournament in your own city, but I don't see
> > anything to prove that this would out-weigh the overwhelming benefits
that
> > come with it.
>
> Nor have you shown anything to prove there is an actual advantage (let
> alone an overwhelming one), other than to declare it to be so. 0 0 7 has
> spoken, it is law.
>
> It's interesting, however, the way your position moves around - with
> you, sometimes it's a slight advantage, sometimes it's an overwhelming
> advantage. I guess the fact that even you can't define how much of an
> advantage it is kind of undermines the reliability of your proclomations.
>
> > Winning iNAC in back to back years,
>
> Odd that so few other people from Phoenix actually even qualified.
> You'd think such a massive advantage would help everyone from the center.
> (Odd, also, that you were behind early on, and when particular people
> started to go in the tank, you jumped up to the front. I don't think that
> kind of home maze advantage works in the NAC).

> ] MALICE [
>

Saying that Nate cheated to win INac is lower than someone proclaiming HMA
to be an advantage in my opinion.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




03 Aug 2004 05:13:12
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:RwEPc.882$d8.226@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Saying that Nate cheated to win INac is lower than someone proclaiming HMA
> to be an advantage in my opinion.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

I didn't say he cheated.

At most, I pointed out what factually happened, and you drew an obvious
conclusion - but even if that conclusion is correct, it wouldn't have been
cheating or against the rules.

Still, in hindsight, I think you're right that the comment didn't need
to be made, and, really it does nothing but detract from the real points.

] MALICE [




03 Aug 2004 05:16:43
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:8vEPc.881$P9.774@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>
> You said if "someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck
off??"
>
> To which I said: Not someone, just you, meaning, I believe you are the
only
> person he has told to fuck off. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

I think that's an accurate recap of what happened - but it leaves the
same question. What was your point?

You don't make irrelevant observations - when you point something out,
it's for a reason. The only purpose I could see was to give a
justification - but maybe you had some reason I'm missing?

] MALICE [




03 Aug 2004 05:48:39
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:%cFPc.201760$%_6.34695@attbi_s01...
> "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> news:8vEPc.881$P9.774@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > You said if "someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck
> off??"
> >
> > To which I said: Not someone, just you, meaning, I believe you are the
> only
> > person he has told to fuck off. Nothing more, nothing less.
> >
> > Colombo
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> I think that's an accurate recap of what happened - but it leaves the
> same question. What was your point?
>
> You don't make irrelevant observations - when you point something out,
> it's for a reason. The only purpose I could see was to give a
> justification - but maybe you had some reason I'm missing?
>
> ] MALICE [
>

Well, the way you made it sound, it sounded as if he was on here telling
everyone to fuck off everytime they said something he disagreed with. I
just was pointing out that he doesn't do that.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




03 Aug 2004 06:38:54
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:XGFPc.2874$Vi5.967@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Well, the way you made it sound, it sounded as if he was on here telling
> everyone to fuck off everytime they said something he disagreed with. I
> just was pointing out that he doesn't do that.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

I see what you're saying.

It's not exactly like he's warm and fuzzy with everyone else on the
newsgroup, but I certainly can push him to a new level.

I wasn't trying to say Tom did it every time someone said something, or
even that he'd said it to anyone but me. In fact, I can't think of a time
he's ever called anyone else "fucko." The issue wasn't how many times he'd
done it - it was about getting far more upset that something was pointed out
than the fact that it happened in the first place.

] MALICE [




03 Aug 2004 05:10:19
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

The organsplitters evil grace comes shooting out it's filthy face.

=D

Pt
HLQ
STFU

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message news:<WXQOc.190648$%_6.124698@attbi_s01>...
> "CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e84be8f7.0407300307.5e9b1a83@posting.google.com...
> > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54>...
> > > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...
>
> > > I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another
> team
> > > was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with
> some
> > > kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external
> factor
> > > caused your defeat.
> > >
> > > ] MALICE [
> >
> >
> > Hey. Fucko.
> >
> > I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
> > them what we said to them after semis.
> >
> > Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
> > you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.
> >
> > You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
> > me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
> > Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
> > because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
> > Irishman.)
> >
> > Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.
> >
> >
> > Pt
> > HLQ
> > STFU
> > "Say it to my face. Please."
>
> Wow, what kind of half-assed, jacked-up challenge was that??
>
> Go pull up some old posts... but you won't... but you will... but I
> wouldn't ...
>
> You've got me wriggling in the crushing grip of your clever challenge!
> If I look up old posts, then you were right when you said I wouldn't, and if
> I don't then you were right when I said I would. Dastardly!!
>
> I do have a question, though. Why is it that it's just fine if certain
> Houston players shit talk teams, tell them how crappy they are, tell them
> how much they suck, and when those teams win, diminish their
> accomplishments, talk down their wins, and find bizarre ways to discredit
> them - BUT if someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck off??
>
> ] MALICE [


03 Aug 2004 13:04:15
Anomoly
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

John,

Please be clear that only one person on our team has taken the stance of
"shit talking" and to "denigrate their accomplishments". In your statement
you keep saying "You" and that is being addressed at Colombo, who never has
taken these stances. Team Houston as a whole neither agrees nor disagrees
with some of the things that have been said here. I for one congratulate
ALL the regional champions for their accomplishments, no matter which maze
they were in. It is a huge accomplishment to win Regionals and nothing can
and should undermine that accomplishment.

For the record and on the subject at hand, you are so quick to point out
that someone's opinion is not valid simply because they say it is, but that
is really all you are doing. Why is your opinion more valid than Nate's or
Lollipop's? I believe that Home Maze does matter. I believe that a Houston
Westheimer team will win the upcoming 4 man and will be greatly assisted by
knowing their own maze. Do I think a solid team can over come home maze
advantage? Hell yes. Do I think that a tournament is over before it
started due to HMA? Hell No! Simply put to say that home maze has NO
bearing is just an ignorant statement. How can it not? It is not the end
all be all advantage, but it DOES have an effect. Every single sport talks
of Home Field, Home Court, Home Town, Home Arena advantage.. Why would ours
be any different? How can knowing the maze better than every single other
team not be an advantage? How can knowing all the angles, all the mirrors
and all the details of a maze like the back of one's hand not be an
advantage?

Simply put it is an advantage and I think most people from most systems
would agree. The fact of the matter is this is an opinion based argument,
mine is not better than yours and I don't claim it to be. I just believe
what I believe and you do the same. As I have said I believe a strong team
can overcome HMA, but I also believe two teams that are of relative equal
strength playing where one has HMA the HMA team will win most of the time.

Anomoly

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:YsEPc.204012$IQ4.15111@attbi_s02...
> "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> news:KdWOc.492$J56.172@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > Not someone. Just you.
> >
> > Colombo
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> And what's the point? How does it make it any more acceptable to shit
> talk teams, and denigrate their accomplishments because of the person who
> points out that you did it? How is there anything wrong with them
pointing
> it out if you actually did what they said? How do you feel justified at
> getting upset at them, for pointing out something you actually did?
>
> You may not like me for pointing these things out (and other reasons),
> but if the things I point out actually happened, you have only the person
> who did them to blame.
>
> ] MALICE [
>
>




03 Aug 2004 07:37:12
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

You really can't speak to what I am upset about or how upset I really
am. All you have are assumptions based upon your own perspective.
Understandable. That's all any of us have to go on.

Something you should know about me is that I am loyal to my friends to
a fault. If I thought something they said was wrong I would just call
them, and not post it on the newsgroup. I will, however, *always*
defend them.

Pt
HLQ
STFU


> It's not exactly like he's warm and fuzzy with everyone else on the
> newsgroup, but I certainly can push him to a new level.
>
> I wasn't trying to say Tom did it every time someone said something, or
> even that he'd said it to anyone but me. In fact, I can't think of a time
> he's ever called anyone else "fucko." The issue wasn't how many times he'd
> done it - it was about getting far more upset that something was pointed out
> than the fact that it happened in the first place.
>
> ] MALICE [


03 Aug 2004 09:36:34
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message news:<gcEPc.69564$> Why aren't more people like that in our sport. The whole HMA argument
> is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike slap in the face to teams who won.
> It seems incredibly immature, egotistical and childish.

Perhaps in delivery. (You calling anyone egotistical is a joke.) If
you think that HMA is a complete non-factor you are fooling yourself.
I quote Dark Angel in my hotel room (That I always share with Lollipop
and Capri Sun. What poor sports they are hanging out with an NRH
player shortly after they administered the beatdown to us.) about an
hour after the finals :

"We had a big advantage."

(Sorry for putting you on the spot Ricky. I kept this to myself as
long as I could.)

In my opinion it is immature, childish and egotistical not to
recognize the advantage you had over your opponent. Is the confidence
in the victory so weak that pointing out an advantage becomes poor
sportsmanship?

I think this point has been lost because of the inflammatory way in
which in which we tend to express our opinions. The three of us have
never been diplomatic. This has been common knowledge for some time.

Really HMA is what you make of it. NRH played that last game
masterfully. I walked around the whole maze getting my ass handed to
me. I watched how they set up and it was perfect. They also wanted it
more. No doubt about that.

The statement that it was the sole reason they won is false, but no
one can say it wasn't a factor.

Other factors contributing to NRH's win :

Desire
Phsyical stamina

Denying that HMA had anything to do with the win is myopic at best.

> It's a shame a few egos prevent some people from saying -
> congratulations, you were the better team, we'll try to get you next time.
> Instead, it's - you really weren't better than us, you only won because of
> [insert trumped up, whiney excuse].

If memory serves me correctly Nick went and congratulated NRH players
after finals. He even got snuffed by a couple after trying to do the
right thing. Would you expect him to treat them with respect when he
extended the olive branch only to have it thrown back in his face?

Ray and Nick both have made attempts to be the "bigger man" only to
have thier efforts laughed at. What do you say to that?

Pt
HLQ
STFU


03 Aug 2004 09:39:24
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> Nor have you shown anything to prove there is an actual advantage (let
> alone an overwhelming one), other than to declare it to be so. 0 0 7 has
> spoken, it is law.

Coming from you John (the creator of LQ rules, and often referred to
as King Malice), that's hillarious. Can't you get through a single
thread without talking shit to me? My last post was pretty civil. It's
clear this topic pinches a nerve for you =(

> It's interesting, however, the way your position moves around - with
> you, sometimes it's a slight advantage, sometimes it's an overwhelming
> advantage. I guess the fact that even you can't define how much of an
> advantage it is kind of undermines the reliability of your proclomations.

What? Try to leave out being a complete anal dickhead, and just post
the facts - you can shit talk with me on LQArena, ok? I've stated on
numerous occassions that while I believe home maze advantage exists,
I'm not sure exactly how much of an advantage it will contribute. I do
believe, however, that when comparing two teams with equal skill - the
team playing in their own maze will win the "overwhelming" majority of
the time.

> Odd that so few other people from Phoenix actually even qualified.

Well, the first year - our guys left games early, gave up and only
about 6 of them even played. It's no suprise that they didn't care
about iNAC, because the rest of the nation's iNACs were cancelled.
Solo tournaments sucked, and you had far more incentive to play hard
than any of us, lol. Denver showed the most enthusiasm about iNAC by
actually traveling a long way, and that's wonderful....but it doesn't
mean anyone else really gave a shit. I won the damned thing, and I
thought it was bootleg. =(

> You'd think such a massive advantage would help everyone from the center.
> (Odd, also, that you were behind early on, and when particular people
> started to go in the tank, you jumped up to the front. I don't think that
> kind of home maze advantage works in the NAC).

Hahahaha.....how many fucking excuses do you have to make about iNAC?
Man, you wanted Denver to win that thing pretty bad I guess. Jeeesus,
if there was a trophy for it - I'd give it to your sour ass. <rolls
eyes >

> > Seeing that teams consistantly perform
> > better in their own maze is another.

> That's an interesting claim, since (despite many, many attempts) you
> could never actually show that to be true.

Right. Okay:

iNAC 2002 (we've talked about it, I said I had an advantage)
iNAC 2003 (We've talked about it, I said I had an advantage)

Hey - how many times has Lincoln won the MAC? Six in a row?? What
about Canton this year? NRH? Rockford beating Westland? Maybe their
skill was better, but we should probably wait to see what happens at
NAC, don't ya think? Didn't Springs advance from their own region in
2000 when regionals were in the Springs? What about BOTB 1998 in
Phoenix? Try this one:

How about when Denver beat Phoenix at regionals in the Springs in 2000
by a large margin, only to lose to Phoenix on neutral ground at NAC
that same year????

Come to think of it, is there anyone in the entire LQ world that
doesn't feel most comfortable playing LQ in their own maze? Is there
anyone in the world of LQ who knows the maze and packs better than the
members of that respective center?

> Although you do consistently
> claim that teams perform better in their own maze, that's not really the
> same thing as seeing it. But, then again, people with paranoia see
> conspiracies in all situations - you see home maze advantage around every
> corner.

I see common sense right around every corner too, except when I look
at your posts on this topic.

> LOL, in other words, the people who dispute it are the ones who (unlike you)
> have actually experienced the situation for themselves and would know what
> they're talking about.

Yea - that means I *DO* know what I'm talking about! I had iNAC here
twice, and I had a HUGE maze advantage, remember??? I feel that the
majority of the people who deny home maze advantage exists, are the
same teams who have had a large tourney in their center...and they
lost to a team because they weren't good enough to hang. Again, it's
the *amount* of advantage that should be argued - not whether it
exists or not.

Your first NAC Championship came on Colorado soil, by a small margin.
I don't know if having a maze advantage was the reason you won, but to
deny that it played a role seems stubborn. It's like your closing your
eyes, covering your ears and yelling: "NA NA NA NA NA NA LA LA LA LA
LA LA LA!" At the same time, you're a little too sensative about it
because you think people believe that the only reason you won was
because of having a maze advantage. Some believe that, but most don't.

Let's say that hell freezes over and corporate puts NAC in Phoenix or
Mesa next year. If Phoenix wins, our ENTIRE TEAM will admit that we
had an advantage over all the other teams - I promise you. On the
other hand, if we lose - it will be all the more impressive, because
the team that beats us will have to overcome that advantage.

> The only people I see having a fit about it are
> people with huge egos who can't admit that another team was actually better
> than they were, and need some excuse.

That's not true at all, and if you believe that - you're not listening
to what "these people" re saying. Personally, I've admitted (to your
face) that you were the better team, and won fair and square. I've
done this at multiple NAC tournaments! I've also stated a MILLION
TIMES that home maze advantage isn't likely significant enough to
overcome a dominant team - but it will play a more significant role
when two teams are of equal skill levels.

> ] MALICE [


0 0 7


03 Aug 2004 09:43:34
Darksoul
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Darky's opinion...

Yes...Home maze does give a very distinctive advantage...

But then again...So does Loli's knee-high socks..They really turn the
tables...I couldn't stop staring at them...So I think it evens out in
the end..



"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message news:<2qGPc.204230$IQ4.84862@attbi_s02>...
> "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> news:XGFPc.2874$Vi5.967@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > Well, the way you made it sound, it sounded as if he was on here telling
> > everyone to fuck off everytime they said something he disagreed with. I
> > just was pointing out that he doesn't do that.
> >
> > Colombo
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> I see what you're saying.
>
> It's not exactly like he's warm and fuzzy with everyone else on the
> newsgroup, but I certainly can push him to a new level.
>
> I wasn't trying to say Tom did it every time someone said something, or
> even that he'd said it to anyone but me. In fact, I can't think of a time
> he's ever called anyone else "fucko." The issue wasn't how many times he'd
> done it - it was about getting far more upset that something was pointed out
> than the fact that it happened in the first place.
>
> ] MALICE [


03 Aug 2004 11:00:39
bluezilla
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message news:<N_lPc.5844$go.494@fed1read07>...
> > This may sound supprising coming from an NRH player but.... I think
> > lollipop is right. I used home maze to my advantage so much in
> > regionals. And i know the rest of my team did as well. We used the
> > maze very well and I think that is why we won regionals. Houston is a
> > way better team than us we just used the maze to our advantage Please
> > have mercy on our souls at NAC it will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > blueflame
>
> <rolls eyes>

<blows nate kisses >

hahaha


03 Aug 2004 15:04:21
bluezilla
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030836.7ce4a93f@posting.google.com >...
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<gcEPc.69564$> Why aren't more people like that in our sport. The whole HMA argument
> > is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike slap in the face to teams who won.
> > It seems incredibly immature, egotistical and childish.
>
> Perhaps in delivery. (You calling anyone egotistical is a joke.) If
> you think that HMA is a complete non-factor you are fooling yourself.
> I quote Dark Angel in my hotel room (That I always share with Lollipop
> and Capri Sun. What poor sports they are hanging out with an NRH
> player shortly after they administered the beatdown to us.) about an
> hour after the finals :
>
> "We had a big advantage."
>
> (Sorry for putting you on the spot Ricky. I kept this to myself as
> long as I could.)
>
> In my opinion it is immature, childish and egotistical not to
> recognize the advantage you had over your opponent. Is the confidence
> in the victory so weak that pointing out an advantage becomes poor
> sportsmanship?
>
> I think this point has been lost because of the inflammatory way in
> which in which we tend to express our opinions. The three of us have
> never been diplomatic. This has been common knowledge for some time.
>
> Really HMA is what you make of it. NRH played that last game
> masterfully. I walked around the whole maze getting my ass handed to
> me. I watched how they set up and it was perfect. They also wanted it
> more. No doubt about that.
>
> The statement that it was the sole reason they won is false, but no
> one can say it wasn't a factor.
>
> Other factors contributing to NRH's win :
>
> Desire
> Phsyical stamina
>
> Denying that HMA had anything to do with the win is myopic at best.
>
> > It's a shame a few egos prevent some people from saying -
> > congratulations, you were the better team, we'll try to get you next time.
> > Instead, it's - you really weren't better than us, you only won because of
> > [insert trumped up, whiney excuse].
>
> If memory serves me correctly Nick went and congratulated NRH players
> after finals. He even got snuffed by a couple after trying to do the
> right thing. Would you expect him to treat them with respect when he
> extended the olive branch only to have it thrown back in his face?
>
> Ray and Nick both have made attempts to be the "bigger man" only to
> have thier efforts laughed at. What do you say to that?
>
> Pt
> HLQ
> STFU


I'm not doubting we had an advantage. I know we did but i also know
HMA is not the reason we won. THe only problem i have with lollipop
is he said we would never beat you in a neutral maze. Hmm what
happend in okc last year?? Oh yeah we beat you! Lollis comments are
rude to all the teams that had HMA. Another thing. Maybe ricky was
just telling you what you wanted to hear. And we played whereever you
guys wanted to play every game of that finals. If we wanted to we
probably could have had every game in teh tower but you guys were to
afraid to play us in teh tower the 3rd game. I only hope that you
guys win the houston 4 man because if you dont all this homemaze
advantage shit will make you feel stupid.

blueflame


03 Aug 2004 15:39:20
Lollipop
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Darksoul_NRH@hotmail.com (Darksoul) wrote in message news:<58f89725.0408030843.4e5ffba4@posting.google.com >...
> Darky's opinion...
>
> Yes...Home maze does give a very distinctive advantage...
>
> But then again...So does Loli's knee-high socks..They really turn the
> tables...I couldn't stop staring at them...So I think it evens out in
> the end..

there are two L's in Lolli buddy- its okay though- anyway, i ditched
the high socks sorry to say- they will never play another tourney
again- glad you noticed them though,hehe-

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


03 Aug 2004 15:44:57
Lollipop
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Anomoly" <jbass1@houston.rr.com > wrote in message news:<j3MPc.30622$Gk4.2409@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
> John,
>
> Please be clear that only one person on our team has taken the stance of
> "shit talking" and to "denigrate their accomplishments".

yes its true


> I believe that a Houston Westheimer team will win the upcoming 4 man and
> will be greatly assisted by knowing their own maze.

> Anomoly

we hope so- otherwise arguing all this HMA will come back to bite
us-hehe- then again, it is just 4 on 4 , not a 9 on 9 on 9

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


03 Aug 2004 15:59:23
Nate
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

> Perhaps in delivery. (You calling anyone egotistical is a joke.) If
> you think that HMA is a complete non-factor you are fooling yourself.
> I quote Dark Angel in my hotel room (That I always share with Lollipop
> and Capri Sun. What poor sports they are hanging out with an NRH
> player shortly after they administered the beatdown to us.) about an
> hour after the finals :
>
> "We had a big advantage."
>
> (Sorry for putting you on the spot Ricky. I kept this to myself as
> long as I could.)
>
> In my opinion it is immature, childish and egotistical not to
> recognize the advantage you had over your opponent. Is the confidence
> in the victory so weak that pointing out an advantage becomes poor
> sportsmanship?
>
> I think this point has been lost because of the inflammatory way in
> which in which we tend to express our opinions. The three of us have
> never been diplomatic. This has been common knowledge for some time.
>
> Really HMA is what you make of it. NRH played that last game
> masterfully. I walked around the whole maze getting my ass handed to
> me. I watched how they set up and it was perfect. They also wanted it
> more. No doubt about that.
>
> The statement that it was the sole reason they won is false, but no
> one can say it wasn't a factor.
>
> Other factors contributing to NRH's win :
>
> Desire
> Phsyical stamina

> Pt

That's a damn good post.


0 0 7


03 Aug 2004 19:06:18
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0408031439.55e72cc5@posting.google.com >...
> Darksoul_NRH@hotmail.com (Darksoul) wrote in message news:<58f89725.0408030843.4e5ffba4@posting.google.com>...
> > Darky's opinion...
> >
> > Yes...Home maze does give a very distinctive advantage...
> >
> > But then again...So does Loli's knee-high socks..They really turn the
> > tables...I couldn't stop staring at them...So I think it evens out in
> > the end..
>
> there are two L's in Lolli buddy- its okay though- anyway, i ditched
> the high socks sorry to say- they will never play another tourney
> again- glad you noticed them though,hehe-
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

Lollipop the knee-high socks has become a fad up here in Nrh. I'm
dissapointed you are choosing to put them away.


04 Aug 2004 02:26:55
Daddy
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me


"bluezilla" <allmondjoy3@aol.com > wrote in message
news:a2884ba9.0408031404.73e63863@posting.google.com...
> tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message
news:<e84be8f7.0408030836.7ce4a93f@posting.google.com >...
> > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<gcEPc.69564$ > Why aren't more people like that in our sport. The
whole HMA argument
> > > is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike slap in the face to teams who
won.
> > > It seems incredibly immature, egotistical and childish.
> >
> > Perhaps in delivery. (You calling anyone egotistical is a joke.) If
> > you think that HMA is a complete non-factor you are fooling yourself.
> > I quote Dark Angel in my hotel room (That I always share with Lollipop
> > and Capri Sun. What poor sports they are hanging out with an NRH
> > player shortly after they administered the beatdown to us.) about an
> > hour after the finals :
> >
> > "We had a big advantage."
> >
> > (Sorry for putting you on the spot Ricky. I kept this to myself as
> > long as I could.)
> >
> > In my opinion it is immature, childish and egotistical not to
> > recognize the advantage you had over your opponent. Is the confidence
> > in the victory so weak that pointing out an advantage becomes poor
> > sportsmanship?
> >
> > I think this point has been lost because of the inflammatory way in
> > which in which we tend to express our opinions. The three of us have
> > never been diplomatic. This has been common knowledge for some time.
> >
> > Really HMA is what you make of it. NRH played that last game
> > masterfully. I walked around the whole maze getting my ass handed to
> > me. I watched how they set up and it was perfect. They also wanted it
> > more. No doubt about that.
> >
> > The statement that it was the sole reason they won is false, but no
> > one can say it wasn't a factor.
> >
> > Other factors contributing to NRH's win :
> >
> > Desire
> > Phsyical stamina
> >
> > Denying that HMA had anything to do with the win is myopic at best.
> >
> > > It's a shame a few egos prevent some people from saying -
> > > congratulations, you were the better team, we'll try to get you next
time.
> > > Instead, it's - you really weren't better than us, you only won
because of
> > > [insert trumped up, whiney excuse].
> >
> > If memory serves me correctly Nick went and congratulated NRH players
> > after finals. He even got snuffed by a couple after trying to do the
> > right thing. Would you expect him to treat them with respect when he
> > extended the olive branch only to have it thrown back in his face?
> >
> > Ray and Nick both have made attempts to be the "bigger man" only to
> > have thier efforts laughed at. What do you say to that?
> >
> > Pt
> > HLQ
> > STFU
>
>
> I'm not doubting we had an advantage. I know we did but i also know
> HMA is not the reason we won. THe only problem i have with lollipop
> is he said we would never beat you in a neutral maze. Hmm what
> happend in okc last year?? Oh yeah we beat you! Lollis comments are
> rude to all the teams that had HMA. Another thing. Maybe ricky was
> just telling you what you wanted to hear. And we played whereever you
> guys wanted to play every game of that finals. If we wanted to we
> probably could have had every game in teh tower but you guys were to
> afraid to play us in teh tower the 3rd game. I only hope that you
> guys win the houston 4 man because if you dont all this homemaze
> advantage shit will make you feel stupid.
>
> blueflame

I dont' know what you are talking about, but it wasn't us that took that
last game of the triple quest to the floor (especially when we had the best
set) after we had played the first two games in the tower.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




03 Aug 2004 20:01:23
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Anomoly" <jbass1@houston.rr.com > wrote in message news:<j3MPc.30622$Gk4.2409@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
> John,
>
> Please be clear that only one person on our team has taken the stance of
> "shit talking" and to "denigrate their accomplishments". In your statement
> you keep saying "You" and that is being addressed at Colombo, who never has
> taken these stances. Team Houston as a whole neither agrees nor disagrees
> with some of the things that have been said here. I for one congratulate
> ALL the regional champions for their accomplishments, no matter which maze
> they were in. It is a huge accomplishment to win Regionals and nothing can
> and should undermine that accomplishment.
>
> For the record and on the subject at hand, you are so quick to point out
> that someone's opinion is not valid simply because they say it is, but that
> is really all you are doing. Why is your opinion more valid than Nate's or
> Lollipop's? I believe that Home Maze does matter. I believe that a Houston
> Westheimer team will win the upcoming 4 man and will be greatly assisted by
> knowing their own maze. Do I think a solid team can over come home maze
> advantage? Hell yes. Do I think that a tournament is over before it
> started due to HMA? Hell No! Simply put to say that home maze has NO
> bearing is just an ignorant statement. How can it not? It is not the end
> all be all advantage, but it DOES have an effect. Every single sport talks
> of Home Field, Home Court, Home Town, Home Arena advantage.. Why would ours
> be any different? How can knowing the maze better than every single other
> team not be an advantage? How can knowing all the angles, all the mirrors
> and all the details of a maze like the back of one's hand not be an
> advantage?
>

screw angles, screw mirrors, and forget about details that won't be
used in a regional game.
If you can't learn One or Two towers in a couple days / lockin well
enough to win in it then you are obviously not the better team at that
tournament.
The only advantage of a home maze for regionals or NAC in my opinion
is all Psycological. I would never say HMA will improve a players
skill.


> Simply put it is an advantage and I think most people from most systems
> would agree. The fact of the matter is this is an opinion based argument,
> mine is not better than yours and I don't claim it to be. I just believe
> what I believe and you do the same. As I have said I believe a strong team
> can overcome HMA, but I also believe two teams that are of relative equal
> strength playing where one has HMA the HMA team will win most of the time.
>
> Anomoly
>
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:YsEPc.204012$IQ4.15111@attbi_s02...
> > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > news:KdWOc.492$J56.172@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > Not someone. Just you.
> > >
> > > Colombo
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
> >
> > And what's the point? How does it make it any more acceptable to shit
> > talk teams, and denigrate their accomplishments because of the person who
> > points out that you did it? How is there anything wrong with them
> pointing
> > it out if you actually did what they said? How do you feel justified at
> > getting upset at them, for pointing out something you actually did?
> >
> > You may not like me for pointing these things out (and other reasons),
> > but if the things I point out actually happened, you have only the person
> > who did them to blame.
> >
> > ] MALICE [
> >
> >

I Will say the only advantage to a side tournament (ex. houston4man)
are knowing the packs. All other teams beside houston won't know the
packs therefor houston has an advantage and that is the only advantage
that you guys will have but I don't think it will be a huge factor in
a game of 4vs4.

The reason I do not believe packs to be an issue at Regionals or NAC
is because every team has a couple days(plenty of time) to know the
packs.

Anomoly you put alot of pressure on the houston teams... to have to
win the tournament or know that you lost with a HMA :( and all your
jiberish was just jiberish... And if you win you guys know all you
will here is how you had HMA (sarcasm if you here it from me though).
I find it all quite funny ;)

WhirlPool


03 Aug 2004 20:12:57
Darren
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!



> screw angles, screw mirrors, and forget about details that won't be
> used in a regional game.
> If you can't learn One or Two towers in a couple days / lockin well
> enough to win in it then you are obviously not the better team at that
> tournament.


I've been playing in Phoenix for about 8 years now. I still ocassionally
get hit from a shot that I didn't even know existed. Whether it's a mirror
or a hole or whatever....it happens........8 years later. I'm supposed to
figure out those shots in another maze within one weekend?

How you can say that I team that is far more familiar with those special
shots doesn't receive any benefit from that is beyond me..........simply
inconceivable.

ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS




04 Aug 2004 03:13:38
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Darren" <deq@cox.ne t > wrote in message
news:TuYPc.5596$sh.2188@fed1read06...
>
>
> > screw angles, screw mirrors, and forget about details that won't be
> > used in a regional game.
> > If you can't learn One or Two towers in a couple days / lockin well
> > enough to win in it then you are obviously not the better team at that
> > tournament.
>
>
> I've been playing in Phoenix for about 8 years now. I still ocassionally
> get hit from a shot that I didn't even know existed. Whether it's a
mirror
> or a hole or whatever....it happens........8 years later. I'm supposed to
> figure out those shots in another maze within one weekend?
>
> How you can say that I team that is far more familiar with those special
> shots doesn't receive any benefit from that is beyond me..........simply
> inconceivable.
>
> ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
>
>

Its cause he's whirlwind.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




04 Aug 2004 03:35:54
Anomoly
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Darren,

After reading my well written piece about why I think HMA is a factor and
then his horse shit dribble that followed, you should know that the boy is
missing a few screws.

Whirlwind,

I spent a long time in my post trying to do anything but discredit your win.
I simply believe that HMA is A FACTOR not THE factor but to say that it is
no factor at all is simply an ignorant statement as I said in my last post.
I also wrote that a better team can overcome the HMA. So there is no
pressure on Houston to win the Austin 4 man. HMA does not make a team win,
but it can help a team to win. So, if we want to talk about jibberish try
looking at your own writing instead of mine. Stop trying to create
controversy where there is none. I tried to be very PC with my response and
in no way talked ANY shit. How about you show me a little respect and do the
same.

Anomoly

"Darren" <deq@cox.ne t > wrote in message
news:TuYPc.5596$sh.2188@fed1read06...
>
>
> > screw angles, screw mirrors, and forget about details that won't be
> > used in a regional game.
> > If you can't learn One or Two towers in a couple days / lockin well
> > enough to win in it then you are obviously not the better team at that
> > tournament.
>
>
> I've been playing in Phoenix for about 8 years now. I still ocassionally
> get hit from a shot that I didn't even know existed. Whether it's a
mirror
> or a hole or whatever....it happens........8 years later. I'm supposed to
> figure out those shots in another maze within one weekend?
>
> How you can say that I team that is far more familiar with those special
> shots doesn't receive any benefit from that is beyond me..........simply
> inconceivable.
>
> ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
>
>




03 Aug 2004 21:26:59
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:I9FPc.201753$%_6.167352@attbi_s01...
> "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> news:RwEPc.882$d8.226@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > Saying that Nate cheated to win INac is lower than someone proclaiming
HMA
> > to be an advantage in my opinion.
> >
> > Colombo
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> I didn't say he cheated.
>
> At most, I pointed out what factually happened, and you drew an
obvious
> conclusion - but even if that conclusion is correct, it wouldn't have been
> cheating or against the rules.
>
> Still, in hindsight, I think you're right that the comment didn't need
> to be made, and, really it does nothing but detract from the real points.
>
> ] MALICE [

<sigh >

You're sad.




03 Aug 2004 21:33:12
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


> Darren,
>
> After reading my well written piece about why I think HMA is a factor and
> then his horse shit dribble that followed, you should know that the boy is
> missing a few screws.
>
> Whirlwind,
>
> I spent a long time in my post trying to do anything but discredit your
win.
> I simply believe that HMA is A FACTOR not THE factor but to say that it
is
> no factor at all is simply an ignorant statement as I said in my last
post.
> I also wrote that a better team can overcome the HMA. So there is no
> pressure on Houston to win the Austin 4 man. HMA does not make a team
win,
> but it can help a team to win. So, if we want to talk about jibberish try
> looking at your own writing instead of mine. Stop trying to create
> controversy where there is none. I tried to be very PC with my response
and
> in no way talked ANY shit. How about you show me a little respect and do
the
> same.
>
> Anomoly

I think you've been very "PC," and I'm guessing Whirlwind was just doing
what he does. However, I think it's important to stress (as you already
have) that HMA doesn't equal an easy win for the home team. Skill is a FAR
bigger factor. Teams that have had home maze advantages over the years need
to understand what we're saying here, and not take it as discrediting, or
negative. It's just opinions and debates.

0 0 7




04 Aug 2004 06:36:02
Johann Von Satan
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

I did say that, but taking just statement without further explination
would be unfair.
yes, I feel we had an advantage, we knew the packs (not that this
makes as much of a difference other than understanding the collective
nature of the packs, a concept that I feel does exist in lasertag in
which you play on any complex electronic system that generally does
not have a par but each set of packs, through collective wear, hit
just a tad different than another set of packs from the same
manufacturer), we knew the field, we practiced on that field
sometimes 2 times a week. it would be silly to say that we did not
have an advantage. this is my opinion though, and in no way ment to
take away from the achievement of my team. They proved many people
wrong and for that they should be proud, regardless of any possibly
non-existent homefield advantage. This, however, should not be used
as a method to make one feel better about bieng beaten by the team
with Homefield advantage, which I feel may be happening here.
HMA did not win the game. I am not sure if my team is arguing against
the fact that we did/did not have an advantage. I find my team more
defending themselves here. It almost seems like those who are saying
that our win is HMA cannot accept that fact that maybe they played
better that day.
I respect Cherrybomb, Paragon and ALL the other Houston guys to
comming up to us and saying good match. I still love you Lollipop, I
understand the need to keep lasertag and personal feelings seperate.
As a lasertag player, I am not sure why there is a need to
continually doubt the achievement of NRH. I think several of them rub
you the wrong way, which I can understand. I do have to admit that
several of them have a really bad habit of saying totally innane
things, for no reason. I suspect that the gremlin Malice, in his
logic, is perpetuating this thread. It is his fault :)
Truthfully, it almost seems like some egos were bruised, subtle shit
talk is bieng thrown, ideology is bieng conveyed and debated, more
egos are bieng bruised (both sides), more talk is bieng thrown,
...repeat as required.
I can't back down, I have to convince you I am right.
Stuff like this is required to maintain the competative edge, ya?


tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030836.7ce4a93f@posting.google.com >...
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<gcEPc.69564$> Why aren't more people like that in our sport. The whole HMA argument
> > is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike slap in the face to teams who won.
> > It seems incredibly immature, egotistical and childish.
>
> Perhaps in delivery. (You calling anyone egotistical is a joke.) If
> you think that HMA is a complete non-factor you are fooling yourself.
> I quote Dark Angel in my hotel room (That I always share with Lollipop
> and Capri Sun. What poor sports they are hanging out with an NRH
> player shortly after they administered the beatdown to us.) about an
> hour after the finals :
>
> "We had a big advantage."
>
> (Sorry for putting you on the spot Ricky. I kept this to myself as
> long as I could.)
>
> In my opinion it is immature, childish and egotistical not to
> recognize the advantage you had over your opponent. Is the confidence
> in the victory so weak that pointing out an advantage becomes poor
> sportsmanship?
>
> I think this point has been lost because of the inflammatory way in
> which in which we tend to express our opinions. The three of us have
> never been diplomatic. This has been common knowledge for some time.
>
> Really HMA is what you make of it. NRH played that last game
> masterfully. I walked around the whole maze getting my ass handed to
> me. I watched how they set up and it was perfect. They also wanted it
> more. No doubt about that.
>
> The statement that it was the sole reason they won is false, but no
> one can say it wasn't a factor.
>
> Other factors contributing to NRH's win :
>
> Desire
> Phsyical stamina
>
> Denying that HMA had anything to do with the win is myopic at best.
>
> > It's a shame a few egos prevent some people from saying -
> > congratulations, you were the better team, we'll try to get you next time.
> > Instead, it's - you really weren't better than us, you only won because of
> > [insert trumped up, whiney excuse].
>
> If memory serves me correctly Nick went and congratulated NRH players
> after finals. He even got snuffed by a couple after trying to do the
> right thing. Would you expect him to treat them with respect when he
> extended the olive branch only to have it thrown back in his face?
>
> Ray and Nick both have made attempts to be the "bigger man" only to
> have thier efforts laughed at. What do you say to that?
>
> Pt
> HLQ
> STFU


04 Aug 2004 06:58:42
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

> I'm not doubting we had an advantage. I know we did but i also know
> HMA is not the reason we won. THe only problem i have with lollipop
> is he said we would never beat you in a neutral maze. Hmm what
> happend in okc last year?? Oh yeah we beat you! Lollis comments are
> rude to all the teams that had HMA. Another thing. Maybe ricky was
> just telling you what you wanted to hear. And we played whereever you
> guys wanted to play every game of that finals. If we wanted to we
> probably could have had every game in teh tower but you guys were to
> afraid to play us in teh tower the 3rd game. I only hope that you
> guys win the houston 4 man because if you dont all this homemaze
> advantage shit will make you feel stupid.
>
> blueflame

I seriously have doubts about our public education system after reading this post.

You really need to grow up, lil boy...er girl. =D

Pt
HLQ
STFU
More than one win


04 Aug 2004 07:03:33
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

Yeah. Notice the response logic and reason illicited from Little Boy
Blue...

I tired of banging my head against the NRH mentality, which I
subscribe to be at about an 8th grade level.

For some of them at least. (We have our moments as well.)

See you in a week bro!

Pt
HLQ
STFU

nater@cox.net (Nate) wrote in message news:<77202989.0408031459.60836a56@posting.google.com >...
> > Perhaps in delivery. (You calling anyone egotistical is a joke.) If
> > you think that HMA is a complete non-factor you are fooling yourself.
> > I quote Dark Angel in my hotel room (That I always share with Lollipop
> > and Capri Sun. What poor sports they are hanging out with an NRH
> > player shortly after they administered the beatdown to us.) about an
> > hour after the finals :
> >
> > "We had a big advantage."
> >
> > (Sorry for putting you on the spot Ricky. I kept this to myself as
> > long as I could.)
> >
> > In my opinion it is immature, childish and egotistical not to
> > recognize the advantage you had over your opponent. Is the confidence
> > in the victory so weak that pointing out an advantage becomes poor
> > sportsmanship?
> >
> > I think this point has been lost because of the inflammatory way in
> > which in which we tend to express our opinions. The three of us have
> > never been diplomatic. This has been common knowledge for some time.
> >
> > Really HMA is what you make of it. NRH played that last game
> > masterfully. I walked around the whole maze getting my ass handed to
> > me. I watched how they set up and it was perfect. They also wanted it
> > more. No doubt about that.
> >
> > The statement that it was the sole reason they won is false, but no
> > one can say it wasn't a factor.
> >
> > Other factors contributing to NRH's win :
> >
> > Desire
> > Phsyical stamina
>
> > Pt
>
> That's a damn good post.
>
>
> 0 0 7


04 Aug 2004 07:18:17
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Darren" <deq@cox.ne t > wrote in message news:<TuYPc.5596$sh.2188@fed1read06>...
> > screw angles, screw mirrors, and forget about details that won't be
> > used in a regional game.
> > If you can't learn One or Two towers in a couple days / lockin well
> > enough to win in it then you are obviously not the better team at that
> > tournament.
>
>
> I've been playing in Phoenix for about 8 years now. I still ocassionally
> get hit from a shot that I didn't even know existed. Whether it's a mirror
> or a hole or whatever....it happens........8 years later. I'm supposed to
> figure out those shots in another maze within one weekend?
>
> How you can say that I team that is far more familiar with those special
> shots doesn't receive any benefit from that is beyond me..........simply
> inconceivable.
>
> ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS

im saying you don't need them to win is all.


04 Aug 2004 07:18:53
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message news:<CvYPc.71$7S3.10@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>...
> "Darren" <deq@cox.ne t> wrote in message
> news:TuYPc.5596$sh.2188@fed1read06...
> >
> >
> > > screw angles, screw mirrors, and forget about details that won't be
> > > used in a regional game.
> > > If you can't learn One or Two towers in a couple days / lockin well
> > > enough to win in it then you are obviously not the better team at that
> > > tournament.
> >
> >
> > I've been playing in Phoenix for about 8 years now. I still ocassionally
> > get hit from a shot that I didn't even know existed. Whether it's a
> mirror
> > or a hole or whatever....it happens........8 years later. I'm supposed to
> > figure out those shots in another maze within one weekend?
> >
> > How you can say that I team that is far more familiar with those special
> > shots doesn't receive any benefit from that is beyond me..........simply
> > inconceivable.
> >
> > ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
> >
> >
>
> Its cause he's whirlwind.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

colombo makes a very valid point


04 Aug 2004 07:21:35
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Anomoly" <jbass1@houston.rr.com > wrote in message news:<uQYPc.14795$_25.2436@fe2.texas.rr.com>...
> Darren,
>
> After reading my well written piece about why I think HMA is a factor and
> then his horse shit dribble that followed, you should know that the boy is
> missing a few screws.
>
> Whirlwind,
>
> I spent a long time in my post trying to do anything but discredit your win.
> I simply believe that HMA is A FACTOR not THE factor but to say that it is
> no factor at all is simply an ignorant statement as I said in my last post.
> I also wrote that a better team can overcome the HMA. So there is no
> pressure on Houston to win the Austin 4 man. HMA does not make a team win,
> but it can help a team to win. So, if we want to talk about jibberish try
> looking at your own writing instead of mine. Stop trying to create
> controversy where there is none. I tried to be very PC with my response and
> in no way talked ANY shit. How about you show me a little respect and do the
> same.
>
> Anomoly
>
> "Darren" <deq@cox.ne t> wrote in message
> news:TuYPc.5596$sh.2188@fed1read06...
> >
> >
> > > screw angles, screw mirrors, and forget about details that won't be
> > > used in a regional game.
> > > If you can't learn One or Two towers in a couple days / lockin well
> > > enough to win in it then you are obviously not the better team at that
> > > tournament.
> >
> >
> > I've been playing in Phoenix for about 8 years now. I still ocassionally
> > get hit from a shot that I didn't even know existed. Whether it's a
> mirror
> > or a hole or whatever....it happens........8 years later. I'm supposed to
> > figure out those shots in another maze within one weekend?
> >
> > How you can say that I team that is far more familiar with those special
> > shots doesn't receive any benefit from that is beyond me..........simply
> > inconceivable.
> >
> > ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
> >
> >

Sorry if I was being disrespectful :) Although there are people saying
we only won cause of Hma.... haha... what ever... my point was in my
teams case that is no where close to why we won but its probly better
if thats what teams want to think.


04 Aug 2004 07:23:28
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030410.5376f50b@posting.google.com >...
> The organsplitters evil grace comes shooting out it's filthy face.
>
> =D
>
> Pt
> HLQ
> STFU
>

A poet and I didn't even know it...

> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<WXQOc.190648$%_6.124698@attbi_s01>...
> > "CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:e84be8f7.0407300307.5e9b1a83@posting.google.com...
> > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54>...
> > > > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...
>
> > > > I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another
> team
> > > > was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with
> some
> > > > kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external
> factor
> > > > caused your defeat.
> > > >
> > > > ] MALICE [
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey. Fucko.
> > >
> > > I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
> > > them what we said to them after semis.
> > >
> > > Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
> > > you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.
> > >
> > > You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
> > > me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
> > > Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
> > > because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
> > > Irishman.)
> > >
> > > Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.
> > >
> > >
> > > Pt
> > > HLQ
> > > STFU
> > > "Say it to my face. Please."
> >
> > Wow, what kind of half-assed, jacked-up challenge was that??
> >
> > Go pull up some old posts... but you won't... but you will... but I
> > wouldn't ...
> >
> > You've got me wriggling in the crushing grip of your clever challenge!
> > If I look up old posts, then you were right when you said I wouldn't, and if
> > I don't then you were right when I said I would. Dastardly!!
> >
> > I do have a question, though. Why is it that it's just fine if certain
> > Houston players shit talk teams, tell them how crappy they are, tell them
> > how much they suck, and when those teams win, diminish their
> > accomplishments, talk down their wins, and find bizarre ways to discredit
> > them - BUT if someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck off??
> >
> > ] MALICE [


04 Aug 2004 07:24:38
WhirlWind;
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message news:<PPXPc.56$hu3.53@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>...
> "bluezilla" <allmondjoy3@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a2884ba9.0408031404.73e63863@posting.google.com...
> > tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message
> news:<e84be8f7.0408030836.7ce4a93f@posting.google.com>...
> > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<gcEPc.69564$> Why aren't more people like that in our sport. The
> whole HMA argument
> > > > is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike slap in the face to teams who
> won.
> > > > It seems incredibly immature, egotistical and childish.
> > >
> > > Perhaps in delivery. (You calling anyone egotistical is a joke.) If
> > > you think that HMA is a complete non-factor you are fooling yourself.
> > > I quote Dark Angel in my hotel room (That I always share with Lollipop
> > > and Capri Sun. What poor sports they are hanging out with an NRH
> > > player shortly after they administered the beatdown to us.) about an
> > > hour after the finals :
> > >
> > > "We had a big advantage."
> > >
> > > (Sorry for putting you on the spot Ricky. I kept this to myself as
> > > long as I could.)
> > >
> > > In my opinion it is immature, childish and egotistical not to
> > > recognize the advantage you had over your opponent. Is the confidence
> > > in the victory so weak that pointing out an advantage becomes poor
> > > sportsmanship?
> > >
> > > I think this point has been lost because of the inflammatory way in
> > > which in which we tend to express our opinions. The three of us have
> > > never been diplomatic. This has been common knowledge for some time.
> > >
> > > Really HMA is what you make of it. NRH played that last game
> > > masterfully. I walked around the whole maze getting my ass handed to
> > > me. I watched how they set up and it was perfect. They also wanted it
> > > more. No doubt about that.
> > >
> > > The statement that it was the sole reason they won is false, but no
> > > one can say it wasn't a factor.
> > >
> > > Other factors contributing to NRH's win :
> > >
> > > Desire
> > > Phsyical stamina
> > >
> > > Denying that HMA had anything to do with the win is myopic at best.
> > >
> > > > It's a shame a few egos prevent some people from saying -
> > > > congratulations, you were the better team, we'll try to get you next
> time.
> > > > Instead, it's - you really weren't better than us, you only won
> because of
> > > > [insert trumped up, whiney excuse].
> > >
> > > If memory serves me correctly Nick went and congratulated NRH players
> > > after finals. He even got snuffed by a couple after trying to do the
> > > right thing. Would you expect him to treat them with respect when he
> > > extended the olive branch only to have it thrown back in his face?
> > >
> > > Ray and Nick both have made attempts to be the "bigger man" only to
> > > have thier efforts laughed at. What do you say to that?
> > >
> > > Pt
> > > HLQ
> > > STFU
> >
> >
> > I'm not doubting we had an advantage. I know we did but i also know
> > HMA is not the reason we won. THe only problem i have with lollipop
> > is he said we would never beat you in a neutral maze. Hmm what
> > happend in okc last year?? Oh yeah we beat you! Lollis comments are
> > rude to all the teams that had HMA. Another thing. Maybe ricky was
> > just telling you what you wanted to hear. And we played whereever you
> > guys wanted to play every game of that finals. If we wanted to we
> > probably could have had every game in teh tower but you guys were to
> > afraid to play us in teh tower the 3rd game. I only hope that you
> > guys win the houston 4 man because if you dont all this homemaze
> > advantage shit will make you feel stupid.
> >
> > blueflame
>
> I dont' know what you are talking about, but it wasn't us that took that
> last game of the triple quest to the floor (especially when we had the best
> set) after we had played the first two games in the tower.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

I was on the floor for a few minutes and a tower for a few minutes and
in my opinion that last game was more in the towers... there were a
few players in tower 2 some in tower 3 and some on the floor... so it
was kinda spread out.


04 Aug 2004 11:04:42
bluezilla
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message news:<TFZPc.6907$ih.2081@fed1read07>...
> > Darren,
> >
> > After reading my well written piece about why I think HMA is a factor and
> > then his horse shit dribble that followed, you should know that the boy is
> > missing a few screws.
> >
> > Whirlwind,
> >
> > I spent a long time in my post trying to do anything but discredit your
> win.
> > I simply believe that HMA is A FACTOR not THE factor but to say that it
> is
> > no factor at all is simply an ignorant statement as I said in my last
> post.
> > I also wrote that a better team can overcome the HMA. So there is no
> > pressure on Houston to win the Austin 4 man. HMA does not make a team
> win,
> > but it can help a team to win. So, if we want to talk about jibberish try
> > looking at your own writing instead of mine. Stop trying to create
> > controversy where there is none. I tried to be very PC with my response
> and
> > in no way talked ANY shit. How about you show me a little respect and do
> the
> > same.
> >
> > Anomoly
>
> I think you've been very "PC," and I'm guessing Whirlwind was just doing
> what he does. However, I think it's important to stress (as you already
> have) that HMA doesn't equal an easy win for the home team. Skill is a FAR
> bigger factor. Teams that have had home maze advantages over the years need
> to understand what we're saying here, and not take it as discrediting, or
> negative. It's just opinions and debates.
>
> 0 0 7

Lollipop saying we would never beat houston in a neutral maze is discrediting us.

blueflame


04 Aug 2004 11:24:09
Johann Von Satan
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

And your feet are longfellows?

Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408040623.23da82ec@posting.google.com >...
> tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030410.5376f50b@posting.google.com>...
> > The organsplitters evil grace comes shooting out it's filthy face.
> >
> > =D
> >
> > Pt
> > HLQ
> > STFU
> >
>
> A poet and I didn't even know it...
>
> > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<WXQOc.190648$%_6.124698@attbi_s01>...
> > > "CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:e84be8f7.0407300307.5e9b1a83@posting.google.com...
> > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54>...
> > > > > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...
>
> > > > > I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another
> team
> > > > > was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with
> some
> > > > > kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external
> factor
> > > > > caused your defeat.
> > > > >
> > > > > ] MALICE [
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey. Fucko.
> > > >
> > > > I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
> > > > them what we said to them after semis.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
> > > > you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.
> > > >
> > > > You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
> > > > me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
> > > > Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
> > > > because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
> > > > Irishman.)
> > > >
> > > > Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pt
> > > > HLQ
> > > > STFU
> > > > "Say it to my face. Please."
> > >
> > > Wow, what kind of half-assed, jacked-up challenge was that??
> > >
> > > Go pull up some old posts... but you won't... but you will... but I
> > > wouldn't ...
> > >
> > > You've got me wriggling in the crushing grip of your clever challenge!
> > > If I look up old posts, then you were right when you said I wouldn't, and if
> > > I don't then you were right when I said I would. Dastardly!!
> > >
> > > I do have a question, though. Why is it that it's just fine if certain
> > > Houston players shit talk teams, tell them how crappy they are, tell them
> > > how much they suck, and when those teams win, diminish their
> > > accomplishments, talk down their wins, and find bizarre ways to discredit
> > > them - BUT if someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck off??
> > >
> > > ] MALICE [


04 Aug 2004 12:09:18
Showtime
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

Have I mentioned that you're my favorite Ricky?


Showtime
LQW


elscrotalodar@darkware.net (Johann Von Satan) wrote in message news:<360b2b51.0408040536.23e29a26@posting.google.com >...
> I did say that, but taking just statement without further explination
> would be unfair.
> yes, I feel we had an advantage, we knew the packs (not that this
> makes as much of a difference other than understanding the collective
> nature of the packs, a concept that I feel does exist in lasertag in
> which you play on any complex electronic system that generally does
> not have a par but each set of packs, through collective wear, hit
> just a tad different than another set of packs from the same
> manufacturer), we knew the field, we practiced on that field
> sometimes 2 times a week. it would be silly to say that we did not
> have an advantage. this is my opinion though, and in no way ment to
> take away from the achievement of my team. They proved many people
> wrong and for that they should be proud, regardless of any possibly
> non-existent homefield advantage. This, however, should not be used
> as a method to make one feel better about bieng beaten by the team
> with Homefield advantage, which I feel may be happening here.
> HMA did not win the game. I am not sure if my team is arguing against
> the fact that we did/did not have an advantage. I find my team more
> defending themselves here. It almost seems like those who are saying
> that our win is HMA cannot accept that fact that maybe they played
> better that day.
> I respect Cherrybomb, Paragon and ALL the other Houston guys to
> comming up to us and saying good match. I still love you Lollipop, I
> understand the need to keep lasertag and personal feelings seperate.
> As a lasertag player, I am not sure why there is a need to
> continually doubt the achievement of NRH. I think several of them rub
> you the wrong way, which I can understand. I do have to admit that
> several of them have a really bad habit of saying totally innane
> things, for no reason. I suspect that the gremlin Malice, in his
> logic, is perpetuating this thread. It is his fault :)
> Truthfully, it almost seems like some egos were bruised, subtle shit
> talk is bieng thrown, ideology is bieng conveyed and debated, more
> egos are bieng bruised (both sides), more talk is bieng thrown,
> ...repeat as required.
> I can't back down, I have to convince you I am right.
> Stuff like this is required to maintain the competative edge, ya?
>
>
> tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030836.7ce4a93f@posting.google.com>...
> > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<gcEPc.69564$> Why aren't more people like that in our sport. The whole HMA argument
> > > is nothing more than an unsportsmanlike slap in the face to teams who won.
> > > It seems incredibly immature, egotistical and childish.
> >
> > Perhaps in delivery. (You calling anyone egotistical is a joke.) If
> > you think that HMA is a complete non-factor you are fooling yourself.
> > I quote Dark Angel in my hotel room (That I always share with Lollipop
> > and Capri Sun. What poor sports they are hanging out with an NRH
> > player shortly after they administered the beatdown to us.) about an
> > hour after the finals :
> >
> > "We had a big advantage."
> >
> > (Sorry for putting you on the spot Ricky. I kept this to myself as
> > long as I could.)
> >
> > In my opinion it is immature, childish and egotistical not to
> > recognize the advantage you had over your opponent. Is the confidence
> > in the victory so weak that pointing out an advantage becomes poor
> > sportsmanship?
> >
> > I think this point has been lost because of the inflammatory way in
> > which in which we tend to express our opinions. The three of us have
> > never been diplomatic. This has been common knowledge for some time.
> >
> > Really HMA is what you make of it. NRH played that last game
> > masterfully. I walked around the whole maze getting my ass handed to
> > me. I watched how they set up and it was perfect. They also wanted it
> > more. No doubt about that.
> >
> > The statement that it was the sole reason they won is false, but no
> > one can say it wasn't a factor.
> >
> > Other factors contributing to NRH's win :
> >
> > Desire
> > Phsyical stamina
> >
> > Denying that HMA had anything to do with the win is myopic at best.
> >
> > > It's a shame a few egos prevent some people from saying -
> > > congratulations, you were the better team, we'll try to get you next time.
> > > Instead, it's - you really weren't better than us, you only won because of
> > > [insert trumped up, whiney excuse].
> >
> > If memory serves me correctly Nick went and congratulated NRH players
> > after finals. He even got snuffed by a couple after trying to do the
> > right thing. Would you expect him to treat them with respect when he
> > extended the olive branch only to have it thrown back in his face?
> >
> > Ray and Nick both have made attempts to be the "bigger man" only to
> > have thier efforts laughed at. What do you say to that?
> >
> > Pt
> > HLQ
> > STFU


04 Aug 2004 19:10:34
enforcer
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me



Malice wrote:
>
> I think you made excellent points across the board (although they'll
> probably fall on deaf ears) - but one comment in particular really rang out.
>
>
> It's a shame a few egos prevent some people from saying -
> congratulations, you were the better team, we'll try to get you next time.
> Instead, it's - you really weren't better than us, you only won because of
> [insert trumped up, whiney excuse].
>
> Congratulations on winning the East - and, from everything I've read,
> winning honorably, which means even more. Good luck next month.
>
> ] MALICE [
Thanks John I appreciate it. To bad your response to my message caused a
weeks worth of drama after everyone else read it. Oh well guess thats
how it goes around here.

Hopefully I will be able to keep the boys on the team on the right
direction at nac and playing clean.
--
Enforcer
Team Canton since 98
03 regionals 1st
Ya I know I still play for a scrub east team


04 Aug 2004 19:22:10
Anomoly
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

And that has to do with me how???????

We are talking specifically about what I posted not little boy blue or the
man on the moon... Me.

Anomoly

"bluezilla" <allmondjoy3@aol.com > wrote in message
news:a2884ba9.0408041004.223196e6@posting.google.com...
> "Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
news:<TFZPc.6907$ih.2081@fed1read07 >...
> > > Darren,
> > >
> > > After reading my well written piece about why I think HMA is a factor
and
> > > then his horse shit dribble that followed, you should know that the
boy is
> > > missing a few screws.
> > >
> > > Whirlwind,
> > >
> > > I spent a long time in my post trying to do anything but discredit
your
> > win.
> > > I simply believe that HMA is A FACTOR not THE factor but to say that
it
> > is
> > > no factor at all is simply an ignorant statement as I said in my last
> > post.
> > > I also wrote that a better team can overcome the HMA. So there is no
> > > pressure on Houston to win the Austin 4 man. HMA does not make a team
> > win,
> > > but it can help a team to win. So, if we want to talk about jibberish
try
> > > looking at your own writing instead of mine. Stop trying to create
> > > controversy where there is none. I tried to be very PC with my
response
> > and
> > > in no way talked ANY shit. How about you show me a little respect and
do
> > the
> > > same.
> > >
> > > Anomoly
> >
> > I think you've been very "PC," and I'm guessing Whirlwind was just doing
> > what he does. However, I think it's important to stress (as you already
> > have) that HMA doesn't equal an easy win for the home team. Skill is a
FAR
> > bigger factor. Teams that have had home maze advantages over the years
need
> > to understand what we're saying here, and not take it as discrediting,
or
> > negative. It's just opinions and debates.
> >
> > 0 0 7
>
> Lollipop saying we would never beat houston in a neutral maze is
discrediting us.
>
> blueflame




04 Aug 2004 12:31:44
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

elscrotalodar@darkware.net (Johann Von Satan) wrote in message news:<360b2b51.0408040536.23e29a26@posting.google.com >...
> I did say that, but taking just statement without further explination
> would be unfair.

I completely agree. I thought that I had conveyed my idea on just what
HMA is, but you did it in a much better fashion.

> it would be silly to say that we did not
> have an advantage. this is my opinion though, and in no way ment to
> take away from the achievement of my team. They proved many people
> wrong and for that they should be proud, regardless of any possibly
> non-existent homefield advantage. This, however, should not be used
> as a method to make one feel better about bieng beaten by the team
> with Homefield advantage, which I feel may be happening here.

This is one of the reasons I did not want to mention what you said,
for fear of it being seen as my "Trump card" to make myself feel
better. I'm unsure how you can feel that I am using your statement in
that way. I only quoted you because...well lets go on to the next part
of your post.

> HMA did not win the game. I am not sure if my team is arguing against
> the fact that we did/did not have an advantage.

From the posts that your team made I have read the contention is that
HMA has never, and never will play a part in a tourney. The reason I
quoted you was to say "Look. Dark Angel is smart enough to realize
that it does play a factor. He is your teammate and he admited it." It
was in no way, shape or form a ploy to make myself feel better. I
simply used what you said to prove my point. (Reluctantly, I might add
because of the fervor with which your teammates were denying it.)

> I find my team more
> defending themselves here. It almost seems like those who are saying
> that our win is HMA cannot accept that fact that maybe they played
> better that day.

Nick is unfiltered. While I may not always agree with his delivery I
respect that he is in unafraid to speak his mind. He's like Ray and I.
We are pretty nice guys until we do someting competitive. I'm
getting soft with age though...

> I respect Cherrybomb, Paragon and ALL the other Houston guys to
> comming up to us and saying good match. I still love you Lollipop, I
> understand the need to keep lasertag and personal feelings seperate.
> As a lasertag player, I am not sure why there is a need to
> continually doubt the achievement of NRH. I think several of them rub
> you the wrong way, which I can understand. I do have to admit that
> several of them have a really bad habit of saying totally innane
> things, for no reason. I suspect that the gremlin Malice, in his
> logic, is perpetuating this thread. It is his fault :)
> Truthfully, it almost seems like some egos were bruised, subtle shit
> talk is bieng thrown, ideology is bieng conveyed and debated, more
> egos are bieng bruised (both sides), more talk is bieng thrown,
> ...repeat as required.
> I can't back down, I have to convince you I am right.
> Stuff like this is required to maintain the competative edge, ya?

I would say that this entire debate stems from personal feelings.
There is no love loss between Nick/Ray and Blueflame/Whirlwind/Solo.
As for me, I actually don't give a shit. I'll defend my friends no
matter what, but that's about as emotionally involved as I really get.

Lets recap the bullshit-storm:

Nick makes inflammatory post stating that NRH wouldn't beat us in a
neutral maze. His opinion. He's entitled to it.

NRH players chime in denying that HMA has anything to do with anygame
in any tourney. Thier opinion. They are entitled to it.

A bunch of worthless posts (Malice is in this area stoking the fire
and mixing the Kool-aid).

Reason and Logic (Pt & Anomoly) rear thier ugly heads and explain it
the way it is. Our opinion, but also unbiased and fact. Just because I
said it is.

The simple fact is that HMA is a variable. How much it effects the
games is not tangible. It requires the ability for abstract thought to
understand that things are not black and white.

The difference between an excuse and a reason depends on one thing :
intent.

Often people who win have such little confidence that anything that
offers even the smallest possibility that they didn't have 100%
control over everything that happned is an excuse.

The other side of that are the people who have such little confidence
that the only way people can beat them is with outside help and that
the victor had no control over the outcome. (I used to be one of these
people. I'm reformed you might say.)

I tend to be in the middle these days. Advantages come and go.
Sometimes you have the advantage, sometimes you don't. It's luck, but
my definition of luck is this :

Skill + Opportunity = Luck

I think this is especially true in sports. NRH got lucky.

They had the skill to take advantage of the opportunity and turn it
into a win.

Perhaps I've explained myself a bit better this time around? =D

Pt
HLQ
STFU


04 Aug 2004 19:33:01
enforcer
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

I would bet money that our performance at nac will not be as good as it
was at regionals. I for one as well as the others really wanted to beat
rochester in our center. For the simple fact that every single person in
the lq world said it could not be done. We all put a lot into that
weekend let alone the months leading up to it. My drive to win isnt what
it was in june at this point but I still hope to have a decent showing
this year. Last year we won and then got rocked in nrh. A few of us new
this would happen going into it so our minds were already made up before
we got there. This year we think we have a a better team and have a shot
of making playoffs so we are going to try like hell to do it instead of
wanting to get our games over with so we can go back to the hotel and
drink.

As for rockford and westland I have seen rockford hand westland their
ass in at least a few games at regionals before so to say that rockford
had no chance to beat westland in to true.

It could be the same for rockford westland as it was for us. We wanted
it more then rochester did. Dont get me wrong unlike every other person
rochester didnt take us as a pushover leading up to regionals so they
didnt underestimate us. But we really wanted it.

I am also not saying hma didnt help us cause it did. But I dont know if
it did to the extent of almost 1000 points.

> Hey - how many times has Lincoln won the MAC? Six in a row?? What
> about Canton this year? NRH? Rockford beating Westland? Maybe their
> skill was better, but we should probably wait to see what happens at
> NAC, don't ya think?
>
>
> 0 0 7

--
Enforcer
Team Canton since 98
03 regionals 1st
Ya I know I still play for a scrub east team


04 Aug 2004 12:41:00
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408040623.23da82ec@posting.google.com >...
> tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030410.5376f50b@posting.google.com>...
> > The organsplitters evil grace comes shooting out it's filthy face.
> >
> > =D
> >
> > Pt
> > HLQ
> > STFU
> >
>
> A poet and I didn't even know it...

Sorry. I'll stop quoting obscure bands. Hmmmmm. What would you be familiar with?

I got it.

Tell me why
Ain't nothin' but a heartache
Tell me why
Ain't nothin' but a mistake
Tell me why
I never wanna hear you say
I want it that way

=D

Pt
HLQ
STFU


04 Aug 2004 14:50:21
Capri Sun
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

>
> I'm not doubting we had an advantage. I know we did but i also know
> HMA is not the reason we won. THe only problem i have with lollipop
> is he said we would never beat you in a neutral maze. Hmm what
> happend in okc last year?? Oh yeah we beat you! Lollis comments are
> rude to all the teams that had HMA. Another thing. Maybe ricky was
> just telling you what you wanted to hear. And we played whereever you
> guys wanted to play every game of that finals. If we wanted to we
> probably could have had every game in teh tower but you guys were to
> afraid to play us in teh tower the 3rd game. I only hope that you
> guys win the houston 4 man because if you dont all this homemaze
> advantage shit will make you feel stupid.
>
> blueflame


That's weird....I do remember Lolli saying "NRh couldnt beat us in a
neutral maze if it was triple quest" I dont think he meant 1 prelim
regional game (even if you did beat us...we doubled that in the game
before against yall that year) but anyways, I guess if Houston and
NRH ended up in the playoffs at NAC, the answer will be solved then!
Personally, HMA is a factor....im not saying it's the only reason yal
won, but it does help...and no one can deny that...i mean NO ONE!
=



- Capri Sun
LQ Houston
9DV
2002 WORLD CHAMP!
2x South Regional CHAMP!
"nuff said"


04 Aug 2004 19:52:05
bluezilla
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

elscrotalodar@darkware.net (Johann Von Satan) wrote in message news:<360b2b51.0408041024.13f709ed@posting.google.com >...
> And your feet are longfellows?
>
> Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408040623.23da82ec@posting.google.com>...
> > tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030410.5376f50b@posting.google.com>...
> > > The organsplitters evil grace comes shooting out it's filthy face.
> > >
> > > =D
> > >
> > > Pt
> > > HLQ
> > > STFU
> > >
> >
> > A poet and I didn't even know it...
> >
> > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<WXQOc.190648$%_6.124698@attbi_s01>...
> > > > "CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:e84be8f7.0407300307.5e9b1a83@posting.google.com...
> > > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54>...
> > > > > > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...
>
> > > > > > I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another
> team
> > > > > > was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with
> some
> > > > > > kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external
> factor
> > > > > > caused your defeat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ] MALICE [
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey. Fucko.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
> > > > > them what we said to them after semis.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
> > > > > you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.
> > > > >
> > > > > You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
> > > > > me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
> > > > > Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
> > > > > because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
> > > > > Irishman.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Pt
> > > > > HLQ
> > > > > STFU
> > > > > "Say it to my face. Please."
> > > >
> > > > Wow, what kind of half-assed, jacked-up challenge was that??
> > > >
> > > > Go pull up some old posts... but you won't... but you will... but I
> > > > wouldn't ...
> > > >
> > > > You've got me wriggling in the crushing grip of your clever challenge!
> > > > If I look up old posts, then you were right when you said I wouldn't, and if
> > > > I don't then you were right when I said I would. Dastardly!!
> > > >
> > > > I do have a question, though. Why is it that it's just fine if certain
> > > > Houston players shit talk teams, tell them how crappy they are, tell them
> > > > how much they suck, and when those teams win, diminish their
> > > > accomplishments, talk down their wins, and find bizarre ways to discredit
> > > > them - BUT if someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck off??
> > > >
> > > > ] MALICE [


I think this thread just needs to be sqaushed. Houston needs to just
get thier lube and bend over and get ready for NAC.


Darksoul


05 Aug 2004 04:24:27
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Anomoly" <jbass1@houston.rr.com > wrote in message
news:j3MPc.30622$Gk4.2409@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> John,
>
> Please be clear that only one person on our team has taken the stance of
> "shit talking" and to "denigrate their accomplishments".

Well, I have actually seen it from more than one - but, you have a valid
point, in that I'm only referring to particular people, not the Houston
team. You (Anomoly), for instance, have a position regarding teams who have
won Regionals which I definitely respect and admire.

> For the record and on the subject at hand, you are so quick to point out
> that someone's opinion is not valid simply because they say it is, but
that
> is really all you are doing.

No, I am not saying there IS (or ISN'T) an advantage. Look at some of
the posts - "if two teams are equal in skill, the home team will
win most of the time", "HA exists in all sports and competition", "Home maze
does give a very distinctive advantage", "it does help...and no one can deny
that" - will, exists, does - all absolutel declarations, not stated as
opinions, and none of them even supported with verifiable facts, let alone
proven.

Contrast those proclomations with your own statement - "I believe that
Home Maze does matter." That statement is clearly one of opinion. You're
not pronouncing it as if it was a fact, when you can't prove it, and you're
really expressing your belief. Your opinion may be correct, but unless you
can prove it, it is an opinion, not a fact.

I've described my experiences, and bent over backwards since this debate
started to say that those experiences may not be the same for everyone (ex.
"Now, I will concede that just because I didn't see something doesn't mean
the situation was the same for everyone.")

> Why is your opinion more valid than Nate's or
> Lollipop's?

That's not really the issue - the issue is their decrees that they are
right, when they may not be, and they can't really prove their positions.
As for validity, however, I have experiences they don't. I used to share
their opinion, and my experiences changed it. It would be like someone from
Sunrise telling you what it's like to win the Southern Regional.


> Simply put to say that home maze has NO
> bearing is just an ignorant statement. How can it not?

See, this is where I disagree with you. I think it's ignorant to say
something like that when you have not experienced the situation, and you
don't know if there are factors you're not aware of. In fact, that's almost
the definition of ignorance (lacking knowledge). This is the approach that
I don't like - rather than back up the claim, you start with the assumption
that you are right, and declare anyone who disagrees to be ignorant. That's
not proof, and you may be wrong.

You can't prove something by saying 'how can it not be true'. It may
seem obvious to you, but there may be things you're not considering.

> It is not the end
> all be all advantage,

How do you know that? Of course, how do you know it's an advantage at
all? You are simply assuming it to be true.

> but it DOES have an effect. Every single sport talks
> of Home Field, Home Court, Home Town, Home Arena advantage.

I don't think that's true. I've never heard of a home field advantage
in water skiing, weightlifting, ski racing, bike racing, and dozens of other
sports. The term comes up generally with large spectator sports, where the
crowd can affect the game and the motivation of the players.

> Why would ours
> be any different?

Because LQ is NOT a spectator sport. The fact that cheering crowds can make
it so an offense can't call an audible in football, has nothing to do with
LQ. The fact that cheering crowds can motivate players, has nothing to do
with LQ.

> How can knowing the maze better than every single other
> team not be an advantage?

It's frustrating that I have answered that question over and over and over,
and people who want there to be HMA ignore that and keep asking it. There
are several answers (because the issue is not as simple as people would like
to make it out to be). First, there may be other factors that offset any
advantage to knowing the maze. For us, I saw a definite, negative impact to
our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home. If the net
effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage. Second, in
multi-team games with concentrated play, which focused on and rewarded
dogfighting over sniping, knowing the maze beyond a certain point may be
irrelevant. For instance, if two players are dogfighting out in the open,
knowing the maze is of no advantage - you're not using the maze, you're out
in the open. You may be able to use the maze to snipe the other player, but
lose more points by staying out of the open dogfight than you gained by
sniping. Of course, that might not be true - I don't know for a fact either
way. What I do know is that in a Regional in my own center, and a Regional
and a NAC in a center nearby, I was never able to use my knowledge of the
maze to make an extra tag on anyone. The people we played knew the maze
well enough that the only situations where I could use superior knowledge
would have sacrificed more points than I was otherwise making (it would have
been silly to give up a critical spot to the opposition, and the chance to
make four or five tags, so that I could maybe use a little known spot to
make one or two tags).

> Simply put it is an advantage

See, here you're doing the same thing I talked about above - declaring
it to be true, when what you're really doing is merely expressing your
opinion. It may be an advantage - but you think that, you don't actually
know it for a fact because you can't prove it.

> The fact of the matter is this is an opinion based argument

I agree wholeheartedly - except that you say things like - it "is" an
advantage, not - "I think it is an advantage."

] MALICE [




05 Aug 2004 04:31:46
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:e84be8f7.0408030637.6c9fadb2@posting.google.com...
> You really can't speak to what I am upset about or how upset I really
> am.

Sure I can - you're upset enough to write "Hey. Fucko" and "Now.
Kindly go fuck yourself."

You were upset enough to publicly attack me for pointing out Lollipop's
comments about other teams, but not upset enough about the comments
themselves to do something similar.

You're obviously upset at me - have the integrity to either stand by
that emotion, or acknowledge it's wrong. Just don't do things to show
you're angry at me and then try to cast doubt on it.

] MALICE [




05 Aug 2004 04:47:18
Anomoly
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

While I get your point that I make declarations, I do concede that it is an
opinion based argument and I am declaring my opinion. With that that in
mind, please insert "I think" in all appropriate locations. :-)

Anomoly

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:%DiQc.211440$IQ4.172810@attbi_s02...
> "Anomoly" <jbass1@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:j3MPc.30622$Gk4.2409@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> > John,
> >
> > Please be clear that only one person on our team has taken the stance of
> > "shit talking" and to "denigrate their accomplishments".
>
> Well, I have actually seen it from more than one - but, you have a
valid
> point, in that I'm only referring to particular people, not the Houston
> team. You (Anomoly), for instance, have a position regarding teams who
have
> won Regionals which I definitely respect and admire.
>
> > For the record and on the subject at hand, you are so quick to point out
> > that someone's opinion is not valid simply because they say it is, but
> that
> > is really all you are doing.
>
> No, I am not saying there IS (or ISN'T) an advantage. Look at some of
> the posts - "if two teams are equal in skill, the home team will
> win most of the time", "HA exists in all sports and competition", "Home
maze
> does give a very distinctive advantage", "it does help...and no one can
deny
> that" - will, exists, does - all absolutel declarations, not stated as
> opinions, and none of them even supported with verifiable facts, let alone
> proven.
>
> Contrast those proclomations with your own statement - "I believe that
> Home Maze does matter." That statement is clearly one of opinion. You're
> not pronouncing it as if it was a fact, when you can't prove it, and
you're
> really expressing your belief. Your opinion may be correct, but unless
you
> can prove it, it is an opinion, not a fact.
>
> I've described my experiences, and bent over backwards since this
debate
> started to say that those experiences may not be the same for everyone
(ex.
> "Now, I will concede that just because I didn't see something doesn't mean
> the situation was the same for everyone.")
>
> > Why is your opinion more valid than Nate's or
> > Lollipop's?
>
> That's not really the issue - the issue is their decrees that they are
> right, when they may not be, and they can't really prove their positions.
> As for validity, however, I have experiences they don't. I used to share
> their opinion, and my experiences changed it. It would be like someone
from
> Sunrise telling you what it's like to win the Southern Regional.
>
>
> > Simply put to say that home maze has NO
> > bearing is just an ignorant statement. How can it not?
>
> See, this is where I disagree with you. I think it's ignorant to say
> something like that when you have not experienced the situation, and you
> don't know if there are factors you're not aware of. In fact, that's
almost
> the definition of ignorance (lacking knowledge). This is the approach
that
> I don't like - rather than back up the claim, you start with the
assumption
> that you are right, and declare anyone who disagrees to be ignorant.
That's
> not proof, and you may be wrong.
>
> You can't prove something by saying 'how can it not be true'. It may
> seem obvious to you, but there may be things you're not considering.
>
> > It is not the end
> > all be all advantage,
>
> How do you know that? Of course, how do you know it's an advantage at
> all? You are simply assuming it to be true.
>
> > but it DOES have an effect. Every single sport talks
> > of Home Field, Home Court, Home Town, Home Arena advantage.
>
> I don't think that's true. I've never heard of a home field advantage
> in water skiing, weightlifting, ski racing, bike racing, and dozens of
other
> sports. The term comes up generally with large spectator sports, where
the
> crowd can affect the game and the motivation of the players.
>
> > Why would ours
> > be any different?
>
> Because LQ is NOT a spectator sport. The fact that cheering crowds can
make
> it so an offense can't call an audible in football, has nothing to do with
> LQ. The fact that cheering crowds can motivate players, has nothing to do
> with LQ.
>
> > How can knowing the maze better than every single other
> > team not be an advantage?
>
> It's frustrating that I have answered that question over and over and
over,
> and people who want there to be HMA ignore that and keep asking it. There
> are several answers (because the issue is not as simple as people would
like
> to make it out to be). First, there may be other factors that offset any
> advantage to knowing the maze. For us, I saw a definite, negative impact
to
> our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home. If the
net
> effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage. Second, in
> multi-team games with concentrated play, which focused on and rewarded
> dogfighting over sniping, knowing the maze beyond a certain point may be
> irrelevant. For instance, if two players are dogfighting out in the open,
> knowing the maze is of no advantage - you're not using the maze, you're
out
> in the open. You may be able to use the maze to snipe the other player,
but
> lose more points by staying out of the open dogfight than you gained by
> sniping. Of course, that might not be true - I don't know for a fact
either
> way. What I do know is that in a Regional in my own center, and a
Regional
> and a NAC in a center nearby, I was never able to use my knowledge of the
> maze to make an extra tag on anyone. The people we played knew the maze
> well enough that the only situations where I could use superior knowledge
> would have sacrificed more points than I was otherwise making (it would
have
> been silly to give up a critical spot to the opposition, and the chance to
> make four or five tags, so that I could maybe use a little known spot to
> make one or two tags).
>
> > Simply put it is an advantage
>
> See, here you're doing the same thing I talked about above - declaring
> it to be true, when what you're really doing is merely expressing your
> opinion. It may be an advantage - but you think that, you don't actually
> know it for a fact because you can't prove it.
>
> > The fact of the matter is this is an opinion based argument
>
> I agree wholeheartedly - except that you say things like - it "is" an
> advantage, not - "I think it is an advantage."
>
> ] MALICE [
>
>




05 Aug 2004 04:57:23
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:SKiQc.211469$IQ4.168655@attbi_s02...
> "CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e84be8f7.0408030637.6c9fadb2@posting.google.com...
> > You really can't speak to what I am upset about or how upset I really
> > am.
>
> Sure I can - you're upset enough to write "Hey. Fucko" and "Now.
> Kindly go fuck yourself."
>
> You were upset enough to publicly attack me for pointing out
Lollipop's
> comments about other teams, but not upset enough about the comments
> themselves to do something similar.
>
> You're obviously upset at me - have the integrity to either stand by
> that emotion, or acknowledge it's wrong. Just don't do things to show
> you're angry at me and then try to cast doubt on it.
>
> ] MALICE [
>

I don't believe that at any point he tried to cast doubt that he was angry
or upset. He just said you didn't know to what degree it was and what it is
exactly that made him that way.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




05 Aug 2004 05:28:01
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:77202989.0408030839.7323eeb1@posting.google.com...

> > It's interesting, however, the way your position moves around - with
> > you, sometimes it's a slight advantage, sometimes it's an overwhelming
> > advantage. I guess the fact that even you can't define how much of an
> > advantage it is kind of undermines the reliability of your
proclomations.
>
> What? Try to leave out being a complete anal dickhead, and just post
> the facts - you can shit talk with me on LQArena, ok? I've stated on
> numerous occassions that while I believe home maze advantage exists,
> I'm not sure exactly how much of an advantage it will contribute. I do
> believe, however, that when comparing two teams with equal skill - the
> team playing in their own maze will win the "overwhelming" majority of
> the time.

That wasn't being a dickhead to you - it was a verifiable statement of
fact. One, actually, that you just confirmed.

Yes, you have said on numerous occassions that you don't know exactly
how much of an advantage it conveys. You've even argued that position
strenusously at times.

But in your post I responded to, you described it as providing
"overwhelming benefits".

Those two positions are contradictory, Nate.

Exactly like I said, sometimes, with you, it's an "overwhelming"
advantage. Other times you play it down. That's not being a dickhead,
that's pointing out your inconsistent positions.

> > > Seeing that teams consistantly perform
> > > better in their own maze is another.
>
> > That's an interesting claim, since (despite many, many attempts) you
> > could never actually show that to be true.
>
> Right. Okay:
>
> iNAC 2002 (we've talked about it, I said I had an advantage)
> iNAC 2003 (We've talked about it, I said I had an advantage)

'Seeing that TEAMS consistantly (sic) perform better...' The
iNAC.wasn't a team event.

I know you love to brag about yourself and the iNAC, but it has nothing
to do with this conversation (other than you keep interjecting it).

> Hey - how many times has Lincoln won the MAC? Six in a row??

I can't talk about past years, but I know that their win this year
wasn't because of some HMA. They won because they played better than the
other teams. They didn't use any special knowledge of the maze, and they
won solidly. They played smarter than we did, particularly in the last game
of the finals - but smarter in a way that would have worked in any maze.
The difference is that I'm comfortable saying they played better, and,
unlike some people, I don't need to come up with some lame excuse that
diminishes their win.

> What
> about Canton this year?

Holy, shit - Canton won by 864 points! It's not like they edged by.
Either your HMA is a HUGE factor, or Canton won because they played better.
Of course, if it was such a huge advantage, why didn't Akron take 2nd? Why
didn't SLC win the West? Why didn't Vegas or Fresno even make the
consolation round in their own centers? Why didn't Tulsa (the 2000 Southern
Champ and NAC 3rd place team) even advance the year before out of their own
center?

Either those teams sucked so badly that a HUGE advantage left them in
the middle of the pack or lower - or any such advantage wasn't that huge.
And if it wasn't that big, then it wasn't the reason Canton won. And if it
wasn't the reason Canton won, then your whole argument here goes out the
window.

> How about when Denver beat Phoenix at regionals in the Springs in 2000
> by a large margin, only to lose to Phoenix on neutral ground at NAC
> that same year????

This is part of what I think is really going on here - you need some
kind of excuse for losing in Colorado Springs - so you're all over HMA -
never mind that it happened four years ago, and that with the core of that
team finally in place, we beat you the next six Regionals and NAC's in a
row - you can't get over the first loss.

In 2000, we outscored you solidly in the prelims in the Regional and
NAC. Our respective semi-final total was solidly above yours at both
events. At the NAC, we put you in 3rd and 2nd in two of the finals games -
but you exploded and won one of them big. Had that game gone like the other
two, we would have won by around 870 points - which is higher than the
margin we won at the Regional. The fact that you dominated a single game in
the finals hardly proves there was a home maze advantage earlier. Maybe
there was, I don't know, but you certainly haven't done anything to prove
there was.

> > LOL, in other words, the people who dispute it are the ones who (unlike
you)
> > have actually experienced the situation for themselves and would know
what
> > they're talking about.
>
> Yea - that means I *DO* know what I'm talking about! I had iNAC here
> twice, and I had a HUGE maze advantage, remember???

No, that just proves that you're either continuing to be an idiot who is
too stupid to realize that how he did in an *individual* tournament does not
prove what "teams" did - or that you just love bragging about yourself so
much you'll keep bringing up an irrelevant point.

> Your first NAC Championship came on Colorado soil, by a small margin.

Duh! Take two seconds to think about that!! 150 pts, 640 pts or 1128
pts - which margin of victory looks like the one where we were most
motivated, playing two teams who had never been in the NAC finals, and had
some HUGE advantage??? I don't think you can argue that 150 points fits
that category. In fact, doesn't that kind of fit with what I've been
telling you for years, that it can be a drain on your teamwork and team
mentality?

If we were so pathetic that a we barely squeeked by because of a
supposed HMA, against two teams with no NAC finals experience - how is it we
did so much better the next year against two teams with not only finals
experience, but NAC champions, the year our motivation should have been
dropping??

> I've also stated a MILLION
> TIMES that home maze advantage isn't likely significant enough to
> overcome a dominant team - but it will play a more significant role
> when two teams are of equal skill levels.

And yet you make absurd arguments like Canton winning because of HMA,
even though they won by over 860 points! Yeah, you talk out of both sides
of your mouth all the time. So?

] MALICE [




05 Aug 2004 05:36:13
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:3AZPc.6906$ih.3452@fed1read07...
>
> <sigh>
>
> You're sad.

Right. Because I admitted that I probably shouldn't have included the
attack, I'm sad.

You're an idiot.

Oh, I almost forgot... <sigh >

] MALICE [




05 Aug 2004 05:40:13
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:TFZPc.6907$ih.2081@fed1read07...
>
> I think you've been very "PC," and I'm guessing Whirlwind was just doing
> what he does. However, I think it's important to stress (as you already
> have) that HMA doesn't equal an easy win for the home team. Skill is a FAR
> bigger factor. Teams that have had home maze advantages over the years
need
> to understand what we're saying here, and not take it as discrediting, or
> negative. It's just opinions and debates.
>
> 0 0 7

So which is it? Did Canton win (by over 860 points) because of HMA or
is skill a FAR bigger factor?!?! You can't have it both ways with a win of
that magnitude.

Saying a team won because of any factor like HMA *is* discrediting by
definition. You just want to discredit, and then act "PC" - but it doesn't
work.

] MALICE [




04 Aug 2004 22:40:14
bluezilla
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

caprisun98@hotmail.com (Capri Sun) wrote in message news:<42f96759.0408041350.6d321c35@posting.google.com >...
> >
> > I'm not doubting we had an advantage. I know we did but i also know
> > HMA is not the reason we won. THe only problem i have with lollipop
> > is he said we would never beat you in a neutral maze. Hmm what
> > happend in okc last year?? Oh yeah we beat you! Lollis comments are
> > rude to all the teams that had HMA. Another thing. Maybe ricky was
> > just telling you what you wanted to hear. And we played whereever you
> > guys wanted to play every game of that finals. If we wanted to we
> > probably could have had every game in teh tower but you guys were to
> > afraid to play us in teh tower the 3rd game. I only hope that you
> > guys win the houston 4 man because if you dont all this homemaze
> > advantage shit will make you feel stupid.
> >
> > blueflame
>
>
> That's weird....I do remember Lolli saying "NRh couldnt beat us in a
> neutral maze if it was triple quest" I dont think he meant 1 prelim
> regional game (even if you did beat us...we doubled that in the game
> before against yall that year) but anyways, I guess if Houston and
> NRH ended up in the playoffs at NAC, the answer will be solved then!
> Personally, HMA is a factor....im not saying it's the only reason yal
> won, but it does help...and no one can deny that...i mean NO ONE!
> =
>
>
>
> - Capri Sun
> LQ Houston
> 9DV
> 2002 WORLD CHAMP!
> 2x South Regional CHAMP!
> "nuff said"


I do not deny that helped. I do know that we were the better team
with or without homemaze advantage at southern regionals 2004.

blueflame


05 Aug 2004 06:58:16
Darren
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message news:BzjQc.211659
>
> > Hey - how many times has Lincoln won the MAC? Six in a row??
>

> The difference is that I'm comfortable saying they played better, and,
> unlike some people, I don't need to come up with some lame excuse that
> diminishes their win.



"For us, I saw a definite, negative impact to
our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home. If the net
effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage."

I feel that's a lame excuse that diminishes our win in Denver '98


ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS




05 Aug 2004 08:57:34
WhirlWind;
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

allmondjoy3@aol.com (bluezilla) wrote in message news:<a2884ba9.0408041852.217161da@posting.google.com >...
> elscrotalodar@darkware.net (Johann Von Satan) wrote in message news:<360b2b51.0408041024.13f709ed@posting.google.com>...
> > And your feet are longfellows?
> >
> > Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408040623.23da82ec@posting.google.com>...
> > > tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030410.5376f50b@posting.google.com>...
> > > > The organsplitters evil grace comes shooting out it's filthy face.
> > > >
> > > > =D
> > > >
> > > > Pt
> > > > HLQ
> > > > STFU
> > > >
> > >
> > > A poet and I didn't even know it...
> > >
> > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<WXQOc.190648$%_6.124698@attbi_s01>...
> > > > > "CHeRRYBoMB" <tommybomb88@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:e84be8f7.0407300307.5e9b1a83@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:<LAkOc.195818$JR4.41394@attbi_s54>...
> > > > > > > "Lollipop" <eyetalian22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:a9ee449b.0407291829.cca4956@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > > > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:<Y6cOc.179778$%_6.174006@attbi_s01>...
>
> > > > > > > I find it hard to believe that you could ever admit that another
> team
> > > > > > > was actually better than you, plain and simple, without coming up with
> some
> > > > > > > kind of explanation for why you were really better and some external
> factor
> > > > > > > caused your defeat.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ] MALICE [
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey. Fucko.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess you never talked to the Lincoln guys after last year. Ask
> > > > > > them what we said to them after semis.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe go pull up some of the old posts from last year. Let me know if
> > > > > > you find any "excuses" about Lincoln out-playing us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You won't do this of course. (Now you will because you want to prove
> > > > > > me wrong.) As usual information is excluded in order to promote
> > > > > > Malices Version of the Truth. (Don't bother asking me to prove this
> > > > > > because I have better things to do than looking through old posts like
> > > > > > Irishman.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now. Kindly go fuck yourself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pt
> > > > > > HLQ
> > > > > > STFU
> > > > > > "Say it to my face. Please."
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, what kind of half-assed, jacked-up challenge was that??
> > > > >
> > > > > Go pull up some old posts... but you won't... but you will... but I
> > > > > wouldn't ...
> > > > >
> > > > > You've got me wriggling in the crushing grip of your clever challenge!
> > > > > If I look up old posts, then you were right when you said I wouldn't, and if
> > > > > I don't then you were right when I said I would. Dastardly!!
> > > > >
> > > > > I do have a question, though. Why is it that it's just fine if certain
> > > > > Houston players shit talk teams, tell them how crappy they are, tell them
> > > > > how much they suck, and when those teams win, diminish their
> > > > > accomplishments, talk down their wins, and find bizarre ways to discredit
> > > > > them - BUT if someone points it out, you have a cow tell them to fuck off??
> > > > >
> > > > > ] MALICE [
>
>
> I think this thread just needs to be sqaushed. Houston needs to just
> get thier lube and bend over and get ready for NAC.
>
>
> Darksoul

save some lube for me too!


05 Aug 2004 10:52:38
bluezilla
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Darren" <deq@cox.ne t > wrote in message news:<P1rQc.17500$sh.1595@fed1read06>...
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:BzjQc.211659
> >
> > > Hey - how many times has Lincoln won the MAC? Six in a row??
> >
>
Well Nepenthe always wins MAC no matter what team he's on. He played
for appleton one year and won :)

blueflame


05 Aug 2004 11:23:36
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Darren" <deq@cox.ne t > wrote in message news:<P1rQc.17500$sh.1595@fed1read06>...
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:BzjQc.211659
> >
> > > Hey - how many times has Lincoln won the MAC? Six in a row??
> >
>
> > The difference is that I'm comfortable saying they played better, and,
> > unlike some people, I don't need to come up with some lame excuse that
> > diminishes their win.
>
>
>
> "For us, I saw a definite, negative impact to
> our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home. If the net
> effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage."
>
> I feel that's a lame excuse that diminishes our win in Denver '98
>
>
> ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS


Thanks for the laugh, Darren. =D

Pt
HLQ
STFU


05 Aug 2004 11:37:47
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> Right. Because I admitted that I probably shouldn't have included the
> attack, I'm sad.

> ] MALICE [


No - you didn't do that. You do what you always do. You make it look
like you admit to a fault, but then put spin on it so that it still
seems that you were somehow right. Just come out and say it John: Home
Maze Advantage Exists!!!



0 0 7


05 Aug 2004 12:42:16
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!!

> Yes, you have said on numerous occassions that you don't know exactly
> how much of an advantage it conveys. You've even argued that position
> strenusously at times.
>
> But in your post I responded to, you described it as providing
> "overwhelming benefits".

Overwhelming when it pertains to the outcome of the tournament. An
advantage, in my opinion, becomes overwhelming when 2 teams are
extremely close in skill level.

> Those two positions are contradictory, Nate.

Nope, they sure aren't - not once I've defined what I mean by
"overwhelming." The difference between 1st and 2nd could easily be
considered "overwhelming." I feel that sometimes (though rarely), HMA
could be the difference between 1st and 2nd! Having said that, I also
feel that the majority of the time the best team will win...but your
constant denial of the HMA is unbelieveable.

> 'Seeing that TEAMS consistantly (sic) perform better...' The
> iNAC.wasn't a team event.

Unless a Denver player had won, and it was in Denver. *Then*, there'd
be no home maze advantage at all, right?

I want to see you make an argument that proves players play
significanty different in a solo game, than in a team game. A team
game is a totally different type of situation, but I believe that for
the most part, players are going to play the same type of styles. Do
you honestly think that if NAC was in Phoenix that I wouldn't be
shooting you through the same holes you bitched about at iNAC????

> I know you love to brag about yourself and the iNAC, but it has nothing
> to do with this conversation (other than you keep interjecting it).

Bragging like: "iNAC was bootleg," or "If I had a trophy for winning
it, you could have it."

John, iNAC was lame - I've said it a ton of times. I think you really
wanted to come down to Phoenix represent your center by winning the
region, and you're still pissed about coming up short.

> I can't talk about past years, but I know that their win this year
> wasn't because of some HMA.

Why can't you talk about past years? Because you weren't there? So
what? If you look at a single tournament where the home team has won 6
years in a row - that's a significant argument for HMA, and I think
only a stubborn man would discard that data. Don't confuse what I'm
saying, because Lincoln's got some great players.

> They didn't use any special knowledge of the maze, and they
> won solidly.

HUH? PROVE to me that they didn't "use any special knowledge of the
maze."

> They played smarter than we did, particularly in the last game
> of the finals - but smarter in a way that would have worked in any maze.

How's that? If you can prove to me that they didn't know the
maze/packs/setup better than you, then maybe I'll buy it.
Unfortunately, there's no other team that knows that maze better than
Lincoln. That's just a fact!

> The difference is that I'm comfortable saying they played better, and,
> unlike some people, I don't need to come up with some lame excuse that
> diminishes their win.

I've never done that you stubborn bastard!!! You're not listening!!!
If you think I'm guilty of it, then so are you!

> Holy, shit - Canton won by 864 points! It's not like they edged by.
> Either your HMA is a HUGE factor, or Canton won because they played better.
> Of course, if it was such a huge advantage, why didn't Akron take 2nd? Why
> didn't SLC win the West? Why didn't Vegas or Fresno even make the
> consolation round in their own centers? Why didn't Tulsa (the 2000 Southern
> Champ and NAC 3rd place team) even advance the year before out of their own
> center?

That paragraph has to be a fucking joke. Have you just been ignoring
everything that's been said for the past 4 years on this subject?
OBVIOUSLY skill will play a larger role, and overcome HMA. Salt Lake
wasn't about to win the west, because they can't overcome
Denver/Phoenix/Mt. View/Spring's skill level.

I will, however, concede that Canton's win was pretty significant, but
so was your win at regionals in 2000 (in Colorado) - and you went on
to lose to the same team at a neutral center, that very same year.

> This is part of what I think is really going on here - you need some
> kind of excuse for losing in Colorado Springs - so you're all over HMA -
> never mind that it happened four years ago, and that with the core of that
> team finally in place, we beat you the next six Regionals and NAC's in a
> row - you can't get over the first loss.

Huh? That has absolutely nothing to do with it. My point is, however,
a complete valid argument for this topic. We're talking about Canton,
NRH and Rockford all pulling upsets at regionals this year - and some
people predict that they won't be able to defeat the very same teams
in a neutral maze at NAC. This would point to HMA (at least in some
way). It happened when you beat us in 2000 regionals, but couldn't
beat us on even ground at NAC. It's a valid argument, if you can drop
your ego and just look at the results. It's also *not* where "this
whole thing" is coming from, because I could care less about
regionals, as long as we win NAC - and we DID that year.

> In 2000, we outscored you solidly in the prelims in the Regional and
> NAC. Our respective semi-final total was solidly above yours at both
> events. At the NAC, we put you in 3rd and 2nd in two of the finals games -
> but you exploded and won one of them big. Had that game gone like the other
> two, we would have won by around 870 points - which is higher than the
> margin we won at the Regional. The fact that you dominated a single game in
> the finals hardly proves there was a home maze advantage earlier. Maybe
> there was, I don't know, but you certainly haven't done anything to prove
> there was.

What the hell does that have to do with anything, besides you making
more excuses why you lost in 2000? If, if, if, if....don't talk to me
about being upset about losing a tournament - because I KNOW that NAC
2000 bugs you to this day. Of course your prelims were better - you
played easier teams! Seeding from regionals always helps, and you won
regionals that year. Then, you compared each of our semis results?
huh? We were playing different teams, so there's no relevance there
either. You also mentioned that we "exploded and won" one of our
finals games. Is that somehow invalid? We beat you in a triple quest
(without replays/aborts/packs dying, etc). You lost. We won - and we
won after losing to you on your own ground. It's a viable argument in
support of the existance of HMA - even when you cloud the argument
with additional excuses why you lost.

> No, that just proves that you're either continuing to be an idiot who is
> too stupid to realize that how he did in an *individual* tournament does not
> prove what "teams" did - or that you just love bragging about yourself so
> much you'll keep bringing up an irrelevant point.

<See above regarding playing the same fucking way in either setting. >

> > Your first NAC Championship came on Colorado soil, by a small margin.

> Duh! Take two seconds to think about that!! 150 pts, 640 pts or 1128
> pts - which margin of victory looks like the one where we were most
> motivated, playing two teams who had never been in the NAC finals, and had
> some HUGE advantage??? I don't think you can argue that 150 points fits
> that category. In fact, doesn't that kind of fit with what I've been
> telling you for years, that it can be a drain on your teamwork and team
> mentality?

John...take a sedative and pretend that someone other than 0 0 7 has
been arguing these points, because that's really what's drawn you into
blindly typing nonsense.

Anyone can take those scores however they want - and some would imply
that Westland was better than you in 2001, but you had HMA, and that
was enough to squeek by. You have to look at which of those
tournaments were decided in a home maze. Existance of HMA is evident,
but the amount of points it adds to any given game is completely
subjective - it's THIS area of the argument that you should start to
divert your attention to.

> If we were so pathetic that a we barely squeeked by because of a
> supposed HMA, against two teams with no NAC finals experience - how is it we
> did so much better the next year against two teams with not only finals
> experience, but NAC champions, the year our motivation should have been
> dropping??

Again, your hatred for me (coupled with your extreme sensativity to
this subject) have blinded you. There isn't a soul in the land of LQ
that would have labeled you as "so pathetic," in ANY year you played.
You're putting words in my mouth because you're just pissed. You think
I'm discrediting your win in Colorado, and all I'm trying to do is get
you to admit that you had an advantage (no matter how big or small!).
Plus, your motivation didn't appear to ever be in question, because
it's clear that your goal was to out-do Phoenix - and that didn't
happen until last year.

> And yet you make absurd arguments like Canton winning because of HMA,
> even though they won by over 860 points! Yeah, you talk out of both sides
> of your mouth all the time. So?

Man, you're really upset about this topic, lol. Clearly, that ties
into the fact that you've had 3 major tournaments in Colorado - and
home maze advantage multiple times. If you just forget all of that for
a second, and pretend that nobody's discrediting any of Denver's
accomplishments (because they aren't), maybe then you'll see the
light. As I illustrated above, you spanked us pretty good in Colorado
in 2000, only to lose at NAC the same year. I've admitted that perhaps
the Canton example from this year was a bad one, and maybe everyone
just over-estimated Rochester. I'll still stick to the fact that they
had an advantage, but I don't know exactly how many points per game it
adds up to.

It's your complete denial of an advantage that keeps this argument
going, and it doesn't make any sense to me.

> ] MALICE [


0 0 7


05 Aug 2004 12:42:47
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!!

> Yes, you have said on numerous occassions that you don't know exactly
> how much of an advantage it conveys. You've even argued that position
> strenusously at times.
>
> But in your post I responded to, you described it as providing
> "overwhelming benefits".

Overwhelming when it pertains to the outcome of the tournament. An
advantage, in my opinion, becomes overwhelming when 2 teams are
extremely close in skill level.

> Those two positions are contradictory, Nate.

Nope, they sure aren't - not once I've defined what I mean by
"overwhelming." The difference between 1st and 2nd could easily be
considered "overwhelming." I feel that sometimes (though rarely), HMA
could be the difference between 1st and 2nd! Having said that, I also
feel that the majority of the time the best team will win...but your
constant denial of the HMA is unbelieveable.

> 'Seeing that TEAMS consistantly (sic) perform better...' The
> iNAC.wasn't a team event.

Unless a Denver player had won, and it was in Denver. *Then*, there'd
be no home maze advantage at all, right?

I want to see you make an argument that proves players play
significanty different in a solo game, than in a team game. A team
game is a totally different type of situation, but I believe that for
the most part, players are going to play the same type of styles. Do
you honestly think that if NAC was in Phoenix that I wouldn't be
shooting you through the same holes you bitched about at iNAC????

> I know you love to brag about yourself and the iNAC, but it has nothing
> to do with this conversation (other than you keep interjecting it).

Bragging like: "iNAC was bootleg," or "If I had a trophy for winning
it, you could have it."

John, iNAC was lame - I've said it a ton of times. I think you really
wanted to come down to Phoenix represent your center by winning the
region, and you're still pissed about coming up short.

> I can't talk about past years, but I know that their win this year
> wasn't because of some HMA.

Why can't you talk about past years? Because you weren't there? So
what? If you look at a single tournament where the home team has won 6
years in a row - that's a significant argument for HMA, and I think
only a stubborn man would discard that data. Don't confuse what I'm
saying, because Lincoln's got some great players.

> They didn't use any special knowledge of the maze, and they
> won solidly.

HUH? PROVE to me that they didn't "use any special knowledge of the
maze."

> They played smarter than we did, particularly in the last game
> of the finals - but smarter in a way that would have worked in any maze.

How's that? If you can prove to me that they didn't know the
maze/packs/setup better than you, then maybe I'll buy it.
Unfortunately, there's no other team that knows that maze better than
Lincoln. That's just a fact!

> The difference is that I'm comfortable saying they played better, and,
> unlike some people, I don't need to come up with some lame excuse that
> diminishes their win.

I've never done that you stubborn bastard!!! You're not listening!!!
If you think I'm guilty of it, then so are you!

> Holy, shit - Canton won by 864 points! It's not like they edged by.
> Either your HMA is a HUGE factor, or Canton won because they played better.
> Of course, if it was such a huge advantage, why didn't Akron take 2nd? Why
> didn't SLC win the West? Why didn't Vegas or Fresno even make the
> consolation round in their own centers? Why didn't Tulsa (the 2000 Southern
> Champ and NAC 3rd place team) even advance the year before out of their own
> center?

That paragraph has to be a fucking joke. Have you just been ignoring
everything that's been said for the past 4 years on this subject?
OBVIOUSLY skill will play a larger role, and overcome HMA. Salt Lake
wasn't about to win the west, because they can't overcome
Denver/Phoenix/Mt. View/Spring's skill level.

I will, however, concede that Canton's win was pretty significant, but
so was your win at regionals in 2000 (in Colorado) - and you went on
to lose to the same team at a neutral center, that very same year.

> This is part of what I think is really going on here - you need some
> kind of excuse for losing in Colorado Springs - so you're all over HMA -
> never mind that it happened four years ago, and that with the core of that
> team finally in place, we beat you the next six Regionals and NAC's in a
> row - you can't get over the first loss.

Huh? That has absolutely nothing to do with it. My point is, however,
a complete valid argument for this topic. We're talking about Canton,
NRH and Rockford all pulling upsets at regionals this year - and some
people predict that they won't be able to defeat the very same teams
in a neutral maze at NAC. This would point to HMA (at least in some
way). It happened when you beat us in 2000 regionals, but couldn't
beat us on even ground at NAC. It's a valid argument, if you can drop
your ego and just look at the results. It's also *not* where "this
whole thing" is coming from, because I could care less about
regionals, as long as we win NAC - and we DID that year.

> In 2000, we outscored you solidly in the prelims in the Regional and
> NAC. Our respective semi-final total was solidly above yours at both
> events. At the NAC, we put you in 3rd and 2nd in two of the finals games -
> but you exploded and won one of them big. Had that game gone like the other
> two, we would have won by around 870 points - which is higher than the
> margin we won at the Regional. The fact that you dominated a single game in
> the finals hardly proves there was a home maze advantage earlier. Maybe
> there was, I don't know, but you certainly haven't done anything to prove
> there was.

What the hell does that have to do with anything, besides you making
more excuses why you lost in 2000? If, if, if, if....don't talk to me
about being upset about losing a tournament - because I KNOW that NAC
2000 bugs you to this day. Of course your prelims were better - you
played easier teams! Seeding from regionals always helps, and you won
regionals that year. Then, you compared each of our semis results?
huh? We were playing different teams, so there's no relevance there
either. You also mentioned that we "exploded and won" one of our
finals games. Is that somehow invalid? We beat you in a triple quest
(without replays/aborts/packs dying, etc). You lost. We won - and we
won after losing to you on your own ground. It's a viable argument in
support of the existance of HMA - even when you cloud the argument
with additional excuses why you lost.

> No, that just proves that you're either continuing to be an idiot who is
> too stupid to realize that how he did in an *individual* tournament does not
> prove what "teams" did - or that you just love bragging about yourself so
> much you'll keep bringing up an irrelevant point.

<See above regarding playing the same fucking way in either setting. >

> > Your first NAC Championship came on Colorado soil, by a small margin.

> Duh! Take two seconds to think about that!! 150 pts, 640 pts or 1128
> pts - which margin of victory looks like the one where we were most
> motivated, playing two teams who had never been in the NAC finals, and had
> some HUGE advantage??? I don't think you can argue that 150 points fits
> that category. In fact, doesn't that kind of fit with what I've been
> telling you for years, that it can be a drain on your teamwork and team
> mentality?

John...take a sedative and pretend that someone other than 0 0 7 has
been arguing these points, because that's really what's drawn you into
blindly typing nonsense.

Anyone can take those scores however they want - and some would imply
that Westland was better than you in 2001, but you had HMA, and that
was enough to squeek by. You have to look at which of those
tournaments were decided in a home maze. Existance of HMA is evident,
but the amount of points it adds to any given game is completely
subjective - it's THIS area of the argument that you should start to
divert your attention to.

> If we were so pathetic that a we barely squeeked by because of a
> supposed HMA, against two teams with no NAC finals experience - how is it we
> did so much better the next year against two teams with not only finals
> experience, but NAC champions, the year our motivation should have been
> dropping??

Again, your hatred for me (coupled with your extreme sensativity to
this subject) have blinded you. There isn't a soul in the land of LQ
that would have labeled you as "so pathetic," in ANY year you played.
You're putting words in my mouth because you're just pissed. You think
I'm discrediting your win in Colorado, and all I'm trying to do is get
you to admit that you had an advantage (no matter how big or small!).
Plus, your motivation didn't appear to ever be in question, because
it's clear that your goal was to out-do Phoenix - and that didn't
happen until last year.

> And yet you make absurd arguments like Canton winning because of HMA,
> even though they won by over 860 points! Yeah, you talk out of both sides
> of your mouth all the time. So?

Man, you're really upset about this topic, lol. Clearly, that ties
into the fact that you've had 3 major tournaments in Colorado - and
home maze advantage multiple times. If you just forget all of that for
a second, and pretend that nobody's discrediting any of Denver's
accomplishments (because they aren't), maybe then you'll see the
light. As I illustrated above, you spanked us pretty good in Colorado
in 2000, only to lose at NAC the same year. I've admitted that perhaps
the Canton example from this year was a bad one, and maybe everyone
just over-estimated Rochester. I'll still stick to the fact that they
had an advantage, but I don't know exactly how many points per game it
adds up to.

It's your complete denial of an advantage that keeps this argument
going, and it doesn't make any sense to me.

> ] MALICE [


0 0 7


05 Aug 2004 12:51:17
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> > Why is your opinion more valid than Nate's or
> > Lollipop's?

> That's not really the issue - the issue is their decrees that they are
> right, when they may not be, and they can't really prove their positions.
> As for validity, however, I have experiences they don't. I used to share
> their opinion, and my experiences changed it. It would be like someone from
> Sunrise telling you what it's like to win the Southern Regional.

> ] MALICE [


What? We've both had home maze advantage John. Somehow, you've drawn
the conclusion that it actually hurts you (!), when I've concluded
that it helped me (iNAC). You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
same style in both!

My example in a previous post pointed out that I'd be shoting your ass
through the same "Nate holes" at NAC that I did at iNAC. Moreover, our
WHOLE TEAM would be using these holes - thus creating an even BIGGER
advantage! At iNAC, you just had to worry about me, at NAC (a team
event), you'd have to worry about us all!!


0 0 7


05 Aug 2004 13:00:29
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> Because LQ is NOT a spectator sport. The fact that cheering crowds can make
> it so an offense can't call an audible in football, has nothing to do with
> LQ. The fact that cheering crowds can motivate players, has nothing to do
> with LQ.

Can you imagine a football field that was different in every city?

Well, I can imagine a baseball field that does, because they're ALL
different. In fact, Coors filed (in Colorado) is the most inviting
field for hitters in the entire league. A player on Colorado is
typically considered to have a higher batting average and slugging
percentage. This is due to the setup of the field, the wind, and
naturally the altitude.

There's differences in most sports, and Jason's right - home maze
advantage exists almost everywhere. Based on the extreme differences
from maze to maze in LQ, a logical person would conclude that a
superior knowledge of that maze's setup would provide an advantage to
the home team. I don't need to get regionals in Phoenix to realize
that.

> ] MALICE [

Spectator sports aren't the only sports that can enjoy a home maze
advantage. What about pro-paintball? Sheesh - going to a new area and
playing a great team on their own turf in paintball is not only
intimidating, but it puts you at a disadvantage. You KNOW they know
all the good spots, all the angles, etc.


0 0 7


05 Aug 2004 13:03:50
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> "For us, I saw a definite, negative impact to
> our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home. If the net
> effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage."
>
> I feel that's a lame excuse that diminishes our win in Denver '98
>
>
> ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS


That's TOTALLY different.





Wait....no it isn't.



0 0 7


05 Aug 2004 13:06:14
Nate
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

> I do not deny that helped. I do know that we were the better team
> with or without homemaze advantage at southern regionals 2004.
>
> blueflame

How can you say home maze helped you? Malice would love to hear that
another team with home maze for a tournament has admitted that it's a
factor.

Thanks for not being blind to common sense.


0 0 7


05 Aug 2004 16:26:17
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Paintball is one shot and your out. If LQ was a 1-life game, home maze would
be a HUGE advantage without question.

I'd like to see Malice describe in detail just how he thinks a team game
differs from a solo game... I posted my thoughts on it last week but no one
dealt with that section of the post.
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"Nate" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:77202989.0408051200.5a6d2a13@posting.google.com...
> > Because LQ is NOT a spectator sport. The fact that cheering crowds can
make
> > it so an offense can't call an audible in football, has nothing to do
with
> > LQ. The fact that cheering crowds can motivate players, has nothing to
do
> > with LQ.
>
> Can you imagine a football field that was different in every city?
>
> Well, I can imagine a baseball field that does, because they're ALL
> different. In fact, Coors filed (in Colorado) is the most inviting
> field for hitters in the entire league. A player on Colorado is
> typically considered to have a higher batting average and slugging
> percentage. This is due to the setup of the field, the wind, and
> naturally the altitude.
>
> There's differences in most sports, and Jason's right - home maze
> advantage exists almost everywhere. Based on the extreme differences
> from maze to maze in LQ, a logical person would conclude that a
> superior knowledge of that maze's setup would provide an advantage to
> the home team. I don't need to get regionals in Phoenix to realize
> that.
>
> > ] MALICE [
>
> Spectator sports aren't the only sports that can enjoy a home maze
> advantage. What about pro-paintball? Sheesh - going to a new area and
> playing a great team on their own turf in paintball is not only
> intimidating, but it puts you at a disadvantage. You KNOW they know
> all the good spots, all the angles, etc.
>
>
> 0 0 7




05 Aug 2004 14:59:28
bluezilla
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

>
> Lets recap the bullshit-storm:
>
> Nick makes inflammatory post stating that NRH wouldn't beat us in a
> neutral maze. His opinion. He's entitled to it.
>
> NRH players chime in denying that HMA has anything to do with anygame
> in any tourney. Thier opinion. They are entitled to it.
>
>

Wrong! I never said we didnt have an advantage and niether did James.
Go look back at my posts. I do think we had the advantage but I also
think that no matter where we played we would have beaten you. I
guess we will find out at NAC.

blueflame
8th grader for life!


05 Aug 2004 16:27:47
Capri Sun
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

>
>
> I do not deny that helped. I do know that we were the better team
> with or without homemaze advantage at southern regionals 2004.
>
> blueflame



Ok..I will give you that, but not to give you guys any more
pressure....but if you are the better team, and the current South
Regional champs, then you guys better do what every other center that
has won the south, make NAC finals...if not, then maybe yall arent as
good of a team as you think you guys are? Let's see if you got what it
takes champs. =


- Capri Sun
LQ Houston
9DV
2002 WORLD CHAMP!
2x South Regional CHAMP!
"nuff said"


05 Aug 2004 17:28:41
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> So which is it? Did Canton win (by over 860 points) because of HMA or
> is skill a FAR bigger factor?!?! You can't have it both ways with a win
of
> that magnitude.

I've already told you (a million fucking times). That will be answered at
NAC. Their victories at regionals will be all the more impressive if they
manage to beat the same teams at NAC!

> ] MALICE [

That's when we'll truly know if those teams needed a home maze advantage, of
if their skill was enough.


0 0 7




05 Aug 2004 17:29:52
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message
news:%LwQc.40550$Vm1.931266@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Paintball is one shot and your out. If LQ was a 1-life game, home maze
would
> be a HUGE advantage without question.
>
> I'd like to see Malice describe in detail just how he thinks a team game
> differs from a solo game... I posted my thoughts on it last week but no
one
> dealt with that section of the post.
> --
> *$pam*

I missed it. Wanna repost?...love to hear what ya think.


0 0 7




05 Aug 2004 18:58:44
CHeRRYBoMB
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

allmondjoy3@aol.com (bluezilla) wrote in message news:<a2884ba9.0408051359.3a03c457@posting.google.com >...
> I
> guess we will find out at NAC.
>
> blueflame
> 8th grader for life!

Indeed.

Pt
HLQ
STFU


05 Aug 2004 23:51:03
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

OK here was the section of my post that dealt with the differences between a
solo and individual game. The rest of this post can be found later on in the
thread if you feel like reading the whole thing with my thoughts on HMA as a
whole.

Why I think home maze advantage plays a much more signifigant role in a
Solo game. Firstly... in a solo game you don't have your teammates getting
'in the way'. You're working for yourself and everything you do is focused
around earning more points on YOUR scorecard, not anyone else's. If your
team is playing in their home maze, it's true that you'll all know the best
spots and such. But it's no guarentee that all 9 players are your team will
be able to play those spots to their full potential. Lets face it, teams
have weak links, and teams have players with completely different styles...
it doesn't make sense to take a sniper out of his sniper-spot because that
position along the back wall of a tower needs support. Etc etc. But in a
Solo game... you just move from great spot to great spot until you find your
zone (in a Solo game, I find players tend to control larger areas than they
do
in a team game where they're helping their team, this allows them to run
from hole to hole and mirror to mirror to control the area and score big
points for themselves, where if they did that in a team game, they might
move out of a support position for a teammate which could negatively affect
your TEAM score even though your INIDIVIDUAL score will increase) and score
as much as you can.
You can't do that so well in a team-game... if your forced out of your great
position, you can't just move onto the next one... because one of your
teammates might be there already... or one of your teammates needs the
support you were providing from your original spot, or the other team
already controls that spot and you can't take it from them because if you
dog-fight the guy holding that position, you'll get tagged in the back by
his teammate. Knowing where that mirror is that no one else knows about
might earn you a few extra tags even in a team-game... but it won't put much
of a dent in your overall team score if the other team is positioned
properly, in fact you might not even make that tag because one of that guy's
teammates just tagged you in the back (and teams like Denver, Westland,
Houston, Brampton, etc. will be setup so that that is possible). But in a
Solo game... where people are fending for themselves... those extra tags
play a much bigger role. It's much much different to play a game where
someone will be able to call their teammate to tag you in the back while you
shoot off that mirror they didn't notice but you already knew about, as
opposed to a Solo game where they can't 'technicaly' call for help and get
you tagged in the back. Sure there might be someone behind you, but they
might be focused on other players in that game, and what do they care if you
tag that bastard near the mirror when they have 3 other targets to shoot at?
Which is THE main difference... in a Solo game... there's no backup for that
guy you're beating on... just other people looking for points who may or may
not try to tag you while they go about scoring as many points as they can.
But in a team-game... a teammate will very likely take the extra effort to
tag you and keep their teammate up and scoring. And since it only takes 2 or
3 games for an NAC team to learn a maze... they'll already be setup so that
your Solo potential is held back. And then you need to depend more on your
team and focus more on helping your team, and tricky mirrors and holes in
the wall don't help so much with that.

"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:vhAQc.11500$ih.11481@fed1read07...
>
> "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> news:%LwQc.40550$Vm1.931266@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Paintball is one shot and your out. If LQ was a 1-life game, home maze
> would
> > be a HUGE advantage without question.
> >
> > I'd like to see Malice describe in detail just how he thinks a team game
> > differs from a solo game... I posted my thoughts on it last week but no
> one
> > dealt with that section of the post.
> > --
> > *$pam*
>
> I missed it. Wanna repost?...love to hear what ya think.
>
>
> 0 0 7
>
>




06 Aug 2004 05:43:31
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Nate" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:77202989.0408051151.56e89cc6@posting.google.com...
You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
> shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
> same style in both!
>
> 0 0 7

It doesn't surprise me why people don't understand how we play, how we score
points, and how we do so well at tournaments when I see things like this.
And John wonders why you can't grasp some of his more complex issues, when
you're struggling to understand this.

Walker




06 Aug 2004 05:45:24
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Nate" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:77202989.0408051203.4bee028c@posting.google.com...
> > "For us, I saw a definite, negative impact to
> > our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home. If the
net
> > effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage."
> >
> > I feel that's a lame excuse that diminishes our win in Denver '98
> >
> >
> > ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
>
>
> That's TOTALLY different.
>
>
>
>
>
> Wait....no it isn't.
>
>
>
> 0 0 7

Right, becuase that's the only reason you won. We were so screwed over by
hosting that you "slipped" by us.. heh. Nevermind the posts where people
like me said that we wouldn't have beaten you that year had I tied Hocus'
hands behind his backs and broke both his legs...

Walker




06 Aug 2004 08:44:27
Lollipop
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408031806.512b0d07@posting.google.com >...
> eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0408031439.55e72cc5@posting.google.com>...
> > Darksoul_NRH@hotmail.com (Darksoul) wrote in message news:<58f89725.0408030843.4e5ffba4@posting.google.com>...
> > > Darky's opinion...
> > >
> > > Yes...Home maze does give a very distinctive advantage...
> > >
> > > But then again...So does Loli's knee-high socks..They really turn the
> > > tables...I couldn't stop staring at them...So I think it evens out in
> > > the end..
> >
> > there are two L's in Lolli buddy- its okay though- anyway, i ditched
> > the high socks sorry to say- they will never play another tourney
> > again- glad you noticed them though,hehe-
> >
> > Lollipop
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
>
> Lollipop the knee-high socks has become a fad up here in Nrh. I'm
> dissapointed you are choosing to put them away.

well im glad i can be a trend setter up there but its your own teams
fault- after you guys beat us i had to retire them-hehe- im kinda
supersticious (sp??)

Lollipop
LQ Houston
9DV


06 Aug 2004 10:33:05
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> > > "For us, I saw a definite, negative impact to
> > > our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home. If the
> net
> > > effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage."
> > >
> > > I feel that's a lame excuse that diminishes our win in Denver '98
> > >
> > >
> > > ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
> >
> >
> > That's TOTALLY different.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Wait....no it isn't.
> >
> >
> >
> > 0 0 7
>
> Right, becuase that's the only reason you won. We were so screwed over by
> hosting that you "slipped" by us.. heh. Nevermind the posts where people
> like me said that we wouldn't have beaten you that year had I tied Hocus'
> hands behind his backs and broke both his legs...
>
> Walker

Ahhh...now you're gettin' it!

Good on ya.



0 0 7


06 Aug 2004 11:08:22
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> Firstly... in a solo game you don't have your teammates getting
> 'in the way'. You're working for yourself and everything you do is focused
> around earning more points on YOUR scorecard, not anyone else's. If your
> team is playing in their home maze, it's true that you'll all know the best
> spots and such. But it's no guarentee that all 9 players are your team will
> be able to play those spots to their full potential.

But what does that mean? At first, you concede that your team will
"know all the best spots and such," but then you say that they may not
play those spots to "their full potential." That's pretty irrelevant,
don't you think? I mean, the knowledge of all of those things, by
definition alone, provides an advantage, doesn't it? Perhaps I don't
know what you're strying to say here, but it sounds like you don't
think knowing all the best spots is meaningful. I don't get that.

> But in a
> Solo game... you just move from great spot to great spot until you find your
> zone

Well, that's subjective. Some players get one spot and NEVER move.
Others move all the time. Either way, it seems logical to assume that
the player with the most knowledge of the maze will find the best
spots - and if he moves around alot, he will relocate to good spots
constantly and appear "craftier" than the other players.

> (in a Solo game, I find players tend to control larger areas than they
> do
> in a team game where they're helping their team, this allows them to run
> from hole to hole and mirror to mirror to control the area and score big
> points for themselves, where if they did that in a team game, they might
> move out of a support position for a teammate which could negatively affect
> your TEAM score even though your INIDIVIDUAL score will increase)

I sort of agree with you here, I guess. Unfortunately, not all players
preform the same way. Not everyone has that type of style. I'd be
willing to bet that the vast majority of LQ players are going to have
the same general playing style whether it's a team game, or a solo
game. I do, however, see the differences you're trying to make.

> if your forced out of your great
> position, you can't just move onto the next one... because one of your
> teammates might be there already...

Right - but that means you *are* utilizing the best positions in the
maze. This means that you're not the only player using the maze to
your advantage, your teammates are too!

> Knowing where that mirror is that no one else knows about
> might earn you a few extra tags even in a team-game...

Ok, and that's really the heart of this argument. It's a few extra
tags a game (let's say 3). In a triple quest, that equates to nearly a
hundred points, give or take. There's beenmore than a few triple
quests decided by much less than that. Just considering the "mirrors,"
it adds points - regardless if it's a solo game or team game.

> but it won't put much
> of a dent in your overall team score if the other team is positioned
> properly,

But you can't factor that into the equation because it's unrelated to
the "home maze" issue. Obviously, there's all sorts of factors in each
game. All I'm saying is that HMA is one of them. I'll easily concede
that "positioning" is another one - but it seems logical to assume
that the team with the most advnaced knowledge of the maze would have
already positioned their players in most of those good spots, right?

> in fact you might not even make that tag because one of that guy's
> teammates just tagged you in the back (and teams like Denver, Westland,
> Houston, Brampton, etc. will be setup so that that is possible). But in a
> Solo game... where people are fending for themselves... those extra tags
> play a much bigger role.

Are you saying that I wouldn't get tagged in the back in a solo games?
In fact, you could argue (much easier) that I'd get tagged a whole lot
more in a solo game. Why do solo-game tags play a "much bigger role"
than tags made in a team game?

> It's much much different to play a game where
> someone will be able to call their teammate to tag you in the back while you
> shoot off that mirror they didn't notice but you already knew about, as
> opposed to a Solo game where they can't 'technicaly' call for help and get
> you tagged in the back.

Either way, I'm getting those "few extra tags" per game. That can make
the difference, can't it? It's not just the mirror dude, it's the best
spots, the pack knowledge, the entire maze - etc.

> Which is THE main difference... in a Solo game... there's no backup for that
> guy you're beating on... just other people looking for points who may or may
> not try to tag you while they go about scoring as many points as they can.

But in both types of games, you're trying to score as many points as
you can, right? That's the key - each player trying to get their
INDIVIDUAL scores high.

> But in a team-game... a teammate will very likely take the extra effort to
> tag you and keep their teammate up and scoring.

That's also very subjective, and it depends on how your team plays the
game. If NAC were in Phoenix, the best spots would be played in, the
packs would be distributed for each player's roles, and you'd STILL be
getting tagged through a small hole or mirror that you didn't know was
there! ;)

> And since it only takes 2 or
> 3 games for an NAC team to learn a maze...

Oh come on - that's ridiculous (I spelled it right!).

I've played LQ Mesa a bunch of times, and I PROMISE you that I don't
know that entire maze. Like Zebra said - he got hit off a mirror the
other day in Phoenix and he didn't ever notice it after 8 years of
playing. You might be able to learn ONE or TWO spots with limited
experience, but there's a lot more maze out there, and there ain't
nobody who can learn a maze that quickly.

> they'll already be setup so that
> your Solo potential is held back.

Not with the way teams enter the maze these days. You could easily get
4-5 great spots that you know about while everyone is going in. Plus,
your team has had endless practice games in that maze already, and
you're accustomed to playing that setup. Moreover, you've noticed the
subtle angles and shots that most others haven't seen. You've probably
also figured the best way to support your teammates from that
position, etc. If the action moves to a different tower, or area of
the maze - you're gonna get there faster, and you'll be much more
comfortable finding the action.

> And then you need to depend more on your
> team and focus more on helping your team, and tricky mirrors and holes in
> the wall don't help so much with that.

I don't know of any 'setup' another team could deploy that would
significanty (or even minorly) effect the way I play my own game.

> *$pam*


I think it's easy to over-evaluate this topic, and we're headed that
way. At least we can debate this topic civilly (unlike some others).

Basically, it's pretty damned subjective, and it will likely only be
decided by how you play your own game. Personally, I'm aware that
having a home maze advantage for iNAC was a big help for me. Having
said that, and knowing how our team plays at NAC, I don't see any way
I'd be adjusting my gameplay in a team setting. For the most part, I'm
still trying to score as many points as I can. Having advanced
knowledge of every nook, cranny, mirror, hole and pack in our maze
will give me an advantage - and I just don't see any significant
reason why I'd be playing much different in a team game. Of course,
somebody else could play 100% different in a team game and ignore all
the advantages if they want - that's their perrogative.


0 0 7


06 Aug 2004 11:24:21
bluezilla
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

caprisun98@hotmail.com (Capri Sun) wrote in message news:<42f96759.0408051527.6c2e06a1@posting.google.com >...
> >
> >
> > I do not deny that helped. I do know that we were the better team
> > with or without homemaze advantage at southern regionals 2004.
> >
> > blueflame
>
>
>
> Ok..I will give you that, but not to give you guys any more
> pressure....but if you are the better team, and the current South
> Regional champs, then you guys better do what every other center that
> has won the south, make NAC finals...if not, then maybe yall arent as
> good of a team as you think you guys are? Let's see if you got what it
> takes champs. =
>
>
> - Capri Sun
> LQ Houston
> 9DV
> 2002 WORLD CHAMP!
> 2x South Regional CHAMP!
> "nuff said"

Didnt you guys win the south last year and then take 5th at NAC? Come
on capri atleast know your stats before you try to put "pressure" on
us. So now all we have to do is get 5th and we live up to houstons
regional winning standards :)

blueflame


06 Aug 2004 17:49:10
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

You keep saying that most player's styles don't change when they move from a
Solo to a Team game... maybe that's why they aren't winning the NAC ;-)

When I played Westland in Clinton Township last year, they didn't win
because they knew mirrors we didn't know about, they didn't win because they
knew holes we didn't know about. The ONLY thing they did better than us
(other than playing better, which they did) was position themselves properly
so that they all had support. If Brampton had put more effort into figuring
out the maze and packs (As it was, we built an alright pack list, but didn't
discuss the maze at all). We wouldn't have been beaten nearly as bad. This
year when we went to Rockford, we spent time discussing areas and positions
we found that we liked, and we built an amazing pack list. There wasn't a
time in that region Where Rockford players were making any meaningful extra
tags on us from angles, mirrors, and holes that they knew, because we were
setup in a way that earned us more points than they could "steal" by using
their HMA. That's what I mean when I say those few extra tags don't help out
as much... because if the other team is setup properly or a better team
(I'll use Denver, just as an example, since they seem to be the only team
that can beat you guys), that extra tag you just made will mean absolutely
nothing, because while you were working on tagging that guy from your
uber-secret hole, 4 of their guys just tagged some of your teammates and
players from the 3rd team. So your tag actualy would affect nothing (except
that dude's individual score, but it's offset by the tags his teammates just
made). But in a SOLO game, that 10 points goes right onto your score, it
adds to YOUR individual score, it's a tag that you wouldn't have had had you
not taken it, it does nothing but improve your lead and position in the
game. Because while you tag that guy through the hole... those 4 denver guys
suddenly are only adding 10 points to each of their scores, not 40 points to
the entire team score. And you're probably already moving to a better
position you know of that will give YOU more and more tags to increase your
individual lead. You might be thinking "yeah, but what if my teammates tag
Denver instead"... well then, that means you're probably the better team!

I will agree with you on one point you've made though about HMA in
general... two teams with equal skill facing eachother in one of their home
mazes.... it's my belief that HMA is enough of a factor that it could swing
the chance of victory to the home team. But (and I'm bringing up yet another
important issue here) only in a Team VS. Team situation. When there are 3
teams in the game, you don't know what the third team is going to do, and
that third team is enough of a source of points for your main opponent, that
you have to battle them for those tags. And when you need to do that, holes
and mirrors aren't a big help.
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!


"Nate" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:77202989.0408061008.4b4e4076@posting.google.com...
> > Firstly... in a solo game you don't have your teammates getting
> > 'in the way'. You're working for yourself and everything you do is
focused
> > around earning more points on YOUR scorecard, not anyone else's. If your
> > team is playing in their home maze, it's true that you'll all know the
best
> > spots and such. But it's no guarentee that all 9 players are your team
will
> > be able to play those spots to their full potential.
>
> But what does that mean? At first, you concede that your team will
> "know all the best spots and such," but then you say that they may not
> play those spots to "their full potential." That's pretty irrelevant,
> don't you think? I mean, the knowledge of all of those things, by
> definition alone, provides an advantage, doesn't it? Perhaps I don't
> know what you're strying to say here, but it sounds like you don't
> think knowing all the best spots is meaningful. I don't get that.
>
> > But in a
> > Solo game... you just move from great spot to great spot until you find
your
> > zone
>
> Well, that's subjective. Some players get one spot and NEVER move.
> Others move all the time. Either way, it seems logical to assume that
> the player with the most knowledge of the maze will find the best
> spots - and if he moves around alot, he will relocate to good spots
> constantly and appear "craftier" than the other players.
>
> > (in a Solo game, I find players tend to control larger areas than they
> > do
> > in a team game where they're helping their team, this allows them to run
> > from hole to hole and mirror to mirror to control the area and score big
> > points for themselves, where if they did that in a team game, they might
> > move out of a support position for a teammate which could negatively
affect
> > your TEAM score even though your INIDIVIDUAL score will increase)
>
> I sort of agree with you here, I guess. Unfortunately, not all players
> preform the same way. Not everyone has that type of style. I'd be
> willing to bet that the vast majority of LQ players are going to have
> the same general playing style whether it's a team game, or a solo
> game. I do, however, see the differences you're trying to make.
>
> > if your forced out of your great
> > position, you can't just move onto the next one... because one of your
> > teammates might be there already...
>
> Right - but that means you *are* utilizing the best positions in the
> maze. This means that you're not the only player using the maze to
> your advantage, your teammates are too!
>
> > Knowing where that mirror is that no one else knows about
> > might earn you a few extra tags even in a team-game...
>
> Ok, and that's really the heart of this argument. It's a few extra
> tags a game (let's say 3). In a triple quest, that equates to nearly a
> hundred points, give or take. There's beenmore than a few triple
> quests decided by much less than that. Just considering the "mirrors,"
> it adds points - regardless if it's a solo game or team game.
>
> > but it won't put much
> > of a dent in your overall team score if the other team is positioned
> > properly,
>
> But you can't factor that into the equation because it's unrelated to
> the "home maze" issue. Obviously, there's all sorts of factors in each
> game. All I'm saying is that HMA is one of them. I'll easily concede
> that "positioning" is another one - but it seems logical to assume
> that the team with the most advnaced knowledge of the maze would have
> already positioned their players in most of those good spots, right?
>
> > in fact you might not even make that tag because one of that guy's
> > teammates just tagged you in the back (and teams like Denver, Westland,
> > Houston, Brampton, etc. will be setup so that that is possible). But in
a
> > Solo game... where people are fending for themselves... those extra tags
> > play a much bigger role.
>
> Are you saying that I wouldn't get tagged in the back in a solo games?
> In fact, you could argue (much easier) that I'd get tagged a whole lot
> more in a solo game. Why do solo-game tags play a "much bigger role"
> than tags made in a team game?
>
> > It's much much different to play a game where
> > someone will be able to call their teammate to tag you in the back while
you
> > shoot off that mirror they didn't notice but you already knew about, as
> > opposed to a Solo game where they can't 'technicaly' call for help and
get
> > you tagged in the back.
>
> Either way, I'm getting those "few extra tags" per game. That can make
> the difference, can't it? It's not just the mirror dude, it's the best
> spots, the pack knowledge, the entire maze - etc.
>
> > Which is THE main difference... in a Solo game... there's no backup for
that
> > guy you're beating on... just other people looking for points who may or
may
> > not try to tag you while they go about scoring as many points as they
can.
>
> But in both types of games, you're trying to score as many points as
> you can, right? That's the key - each player trying to get their
> INDIVIDUAL scores high.
>
> > But in a team-game... a teammate will very likely take the extra effort
to
> > tag you and keep their teammate up and scoring.
>
> That's also very subjective, and it depends on how your team plays the
> game. If NAC were in Phoenix, the best spots would be played in, the
> packs would be distributed for each player's roles, and you'd STILL be
> getting tagged through a small hole or mirror that you didn't know was
> there! ;)
>
> > And since it only takes 2 or
> > 3 games for an NAC team to learn a maze...
>
> Oh come on - that's ridiculous (I spelled it right!).
>
> I've played LQ Mesa a bunch of times, and I PROMISE you that I don't
> know that entire maze. Like Zebra said - he got hit off a mirror the
> other day in Phoenix and he didn't ever notice it after 8 years of
> playing. You might be able to learn ONE or TWO spots with limited
> experience, but there's a lot more maze out there, and there ain't
> nobody who can learn a maze that quickly.
>
> > they'll already be setup so that
> > your Solo potential is held back.
>
> Not with the way teams enter the maze these days. You could easily get
> 4-5 great spots that you know about while everyone is going in. Plus,
> your team has had endless practice games in that maze already, and
> you're accustomed to playing that setup. Moreover, you've noticed the
> subtle angles and shots that most others haven't seen. You've probably
> also figured the best way to support your teammates from that
> position, etc. If the action moves to a different tower, or area of
> the maze - you're gonna get there faster, and you'll be much more
> comfortable finding the action.
>
> > And then you need to depend more on your
> > team and focus more on helping your team, and tricky mirrors and holes
in
> > the wall don't help so much with that.
>
> I don't know of any 'setup' another team could deploy that would
> significanty (or even minorly) effect the way I play my own game.
>
> > *$pam*
>
>
> I think it's easy to over-evaluate this topic, and we're headed that
> way. At least we can debate this topic civilly (unlike some others).
>
> Basically, it's pretty damned subjective, and it will likely only be
> decided by how you play your own game. Personally, I'm aware that
> having a home maze advantage for iNAC was a big help for me. Having
> said that, and knowing how our team plays at NAC, I don't see any way
> I'd be adjusting my gameplay in a team setting. For the most part, I'm
> still trying to score as many points as I can. Having advanced
> knowledge of every nook, cranny, mirror, hole and pack in our maze
> will give me an advantage - and I just don't see any significant
> reason why I'd be playing much different in a team game. Of course,
> somebody else could play 100% different in a team game and ignore all
> the advantages if they want - that's their perrogative.
>
>
> 0 0 7




07 Aug 2004 06:07:30
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:77202989.0408060933.98cdab2@posting.google.com...
> > > > "For us, I saw a definite, negative impact to
> > > > our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home. If
the
> > net
> > > > effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage."
> > > >
> > > > I feel that's a lame excuse that diminishes our win in Denver '98
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
> > >
> > >
> > > That's TOTALLY different.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wait....no it isn't.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 0 0 7
> >
> > Right, becuase that's the only reason you won. We were so screwed over
by
> > hosting that you "slipped" by us.. heh. Nevermind the posts where
people
> > like me said that we wouldn't have beaten you that year had I tied
Hocus'
> > hands behind his backs and broke both his legs...
> >
> > Walker
>
> Ahhh...now you're gettin' it!
>
> Good on ya.
>
>
>
> 0 0 7

Nate,

I mean this in the nicest way possible. You're an idiot. There is nothing
about the situation now, or in 99 that I need to get. I understand your
point of view, and I think I even understand why you think that way, but
that doesn't mean I think it's right. I understand John's point of view,
because I talk to him about it, and because I've been there, but that
doesn't mean I think it's right either. Personally, I believe that a
generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation, because every
situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground. If you can see
that, and find you're way there, then you'll be gettin' it.

Walker
P.S. I'll remember to include <sarcasm > and </sarcasm> tags in my posts
next time.




07 Aug 2004 01:12:45
Capri Sun
Re: Cantons thoughts on HMA according to me

> Didnt you guys win the south last year and then take 5th at NAC? Come
> on capri atleast know your stats before you try to put "pressure" on
> us. So now all we have to do is get 5th and we live up to houstons
> regional winning standards :)
>
> blueflame

Maybe if both you and M<o read my post correctly...I didnt say every
TEAM...i said every center! Houston ahs made NAC finals 2 of the 3
years they won regionals...we are 1 center, tulsa is 1 center, denver
is 1 center, austin is 1 center....SO please..before you start
attackin me over something you misread....plz do a better job at it.
kthnx. = Cya in a week.



- Capri Sun
LQ Houston
9DV
2002 WORLD CHAMP!
2x South Regional CHAMP!
"nuff said"


07 Aug 2004 02:45:27
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com > wrote in message
news:7UEQc.252314$Oq2.199554@attbi_s52...
>
> "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:77202989.0408051151.56e89cc6@posting.google.com...
> You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> > individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
> > shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
> > same style in both!
> >
> > 0 0 7
>
> It doesn't surprise me why people don't understand how we play, how we
score
> points, and how we do so well at tournaments when I see things like this.
> And John wonders why you can't grasp some of his more complex issues, when
> you're struggling to understand this.
>
> Walker

Right, because we've never been able to hang, right?

It's not like we don't play like a team and do certain things differently.
<rolls eyes > Grasp it.


0 0 7




07 Aug 2004 02:46:36
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com > wrote in message
news:Ck_Qc.220025$%_6.5275@attbi_s01...
> "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:77202989.0408060933.98cdab2@posting.google.com...
> > > > > "For us, I saw a definite, negative impact to
> > > > > our team play and mental attitudes that came with being at home.
If
> the
> > > net
> > > > > effect is negative, then overall it is not an advantage."
> > > > >
> > > > > I feel that's a lame excuse that diminishes our win in Denver '98
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That's TOTALLY different.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wait....no it isn't.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 0 0 7
> > >
> > > Right, becuase that's the only reason you won. We were so screwed
over
> by
> > > hosting that you "slipped" by us.. heh. Nevermind the posts where
> people
> > > like me said that we wouldn't have beaten you that year had I tied
> Hocus'
> > > hands behind his backs and broke both his legs...
> > >
> > > Walker
> >
> > Ahhh...now you're gettin' it!
> >
> > Good on ya.
> >
> >
> >
> > 0 0 7
>
> Nate,
>
> I mean this in the nicest way possible. You're an idiot. There is
nothing
> about the situation now, or in 99 that I need to get. I understand your
> point of view, and I think I even understand why you think that way, but
> that doesn't mean I think it's right. I understand John's point of view,
> because I talk to him about it, and because I've been there, but that
> doesn't mean I think it's right either. Personally, I believe that a
> generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation, because
every
> situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground. If you can see
> that, and find you're way there, then you'll be gettin' it.
>
> Walker
> P.S. I'll remember to include <sarcasm> and </sarcasm> tags in my posts
> next time.

Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and it doesn't
suprise me that you'd think the opposite.


0 0 7




07 Aug 2004 16:16:16
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:9w1Rc.12007$ih.10617@fed1read07...
>
> "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:7UEQc.252314$Oq2.199554@attbi_s52...
> >
> > "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:77202989.0408051151.56e89cc6@posting.google.com...
> > You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> > > individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
> > > shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
> > > same style in both!
> > >
> > > 0 0 7
> >
> > It doesn't surprise me why people don't understand how we play, how we
> score
> > points, and how we do so well at tournaments when I see things like
this.
> > And John wonders why you can't grasp some of his more complex issues,
when
> > you're struggling to understand this.
> >
> > Walker
>
> Right, because we've never been able to hang, right?
>
> It's not like we don't play like a team and do certain things differently.
> <rolls eyes> Grasp it.
>
>
> 0 0 7
>
>

Newsflash. You're the one claiming that people "will generally play the
same style in both [an individual tournament and a team tournamennt]" not
me. Tell yourself to grasp it, because I understood what you said.

And where did I ever say that "nobody has ever been able to hang with us".
Jesus you need to learn to read and what is written and not what you think
is written.

Walker




07 Aug 2004 16:17:56
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

>> Personally, I believe that a
> > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation, because
> every
> > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > Walker
>
> Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and it doesn't
> suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
>
>
> 0 0 7
>

Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I didn't say I think
the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much sums up how I
feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA exists in certain
situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but that there is NO
way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation. It's just too
broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into every game.

Walker




07 Aug 2004 19:11:31
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com > wrote in message
news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation, because
> > every
> > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > > Walker
> >
> > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and it doesn't
> > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> >
> >
> > 0 0 7
> >
>
> Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I didn't say I
think
> the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much sums up how I
> feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA exists in
certain
> situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but that there is
NO
> way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation. It's just too
> broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into every game.
>
> Walker
>

So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again there isn't.
Got it.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




07 Aug 2004 16:03:58
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation. Under certain
circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential to) play a
roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation,
because
> > > every
> > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > > > Walker
> > >
> > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and it
doesn't
> > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > >
> > >
> > > 0 0 7
> > >
> >
> > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I didn't say I
> think
> > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much sums up how
I
> > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA exists in
> certain
> > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but that there is
> NO
> > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation. It's just
too
> > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into every game.
> >
> > Walker
> >
>
> So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again there isn't.
> Got it.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV
>
>




07 Aug 2004 22:11:26
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation,
because
> > > every
> > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > > > Walker
> > >
> > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and it
doesn't
> > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > >
> > >
> > > 0 0 7
> > >
> >
> > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I didn't say I
> think
> > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much sums up how
I
> > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA exists in
> certain
> > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but that there is
> NO
> > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation. It's just
too
> > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into every game.
> >
> > Walker
> >
>
> So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again there isn't.
> Got it.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV
>

Exactly.

Walker




08 Aug 2004 02:53:24
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message
news:0DaRc.45138$Jq2.2183924@news20.bellglobal.com...
> No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation. Under
certain
> circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential to) play a
> roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
> --
> *$pam*
> LQ Brampton
> Two points better than you!!!
>
> "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation,
> because
> > > > every
> > > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > > > > Walker
> > > >
> > > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and it
> doesn't
> > > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 0 0 7
> > > >
> > >
> > > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I didn't say I
> > think
> > > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much sums up
how
> I
> > > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA exists in
> > certain
> > > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but that there
is
> > NO
> > > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation. It's just
> too
> > > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into every
game.
> > >
> > > Walker
> > >
> >
> > So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again there isn't.
> > Got it.
> >
> > Colombo
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
> >
> >

You know, I really wish you would quit with your anti Houston posting Frodo.
Its really unbecoming of you.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




08 Aug 2004 06:53:06
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:EAgRc.847$_p.264@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> news:0DaRc.45138$Jq2.2183924@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation. Under
> certain
> > circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential to) play
a
> > roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
> > --
> > *$pam*
> > LQ Brampton
> > Two points better than you!!!
> >
> > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > > > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation,
> > because
> > > > > every
> > > > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > > > > > Walker
> > > > >
> > > > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and it
> > doesn't
> > > > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 0 0 7
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I didn't say
I
> > > think
> > > > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much sums up
> how
> > I
> > > > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA exists in
> > > certain
> > > > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but that
there
> is
> > > NO
> > > > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation. It's
just
> > too
> > > > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into every
> game.
> > > >
> > > > Walker
> > > >
> > >
> > > So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again there
isn't.
> > > Got it.
> > >
> > > Colombo
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
> > >
> > >
>
> You know, I really wish you would quit with your anti Houston posting
Frodo.
> Its really unbecoming of you.
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV
>
>

How was his posting of his interpretation of what I said anti-Houston? Or
did my newsreader filter out the "PS Houston Sucks" comment at the bottom?

Walker




08 Aug 2004 16:39:21
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com > wrote in message
news:m5kRc.220989$a24.154424@attbi_s03...
> "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> news:EAgRc.847$_p.264@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:0DaRc.45138$Jq2.2183924@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation. Under
> > certain
> > > circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential to)
play
> a
> > > roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
> > > --
> > > *$pam*
> > > LQ Brampton
> > > Two points better than you!!!
> > >
> > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > >
> > > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > > > > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every situation,
> > > because
> > > > > > every
> > > > > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and it
> > > doesn't
> > > > > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 0 0 7
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I didn't
say
> I
> > > > think
> > > > > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much sums
up
> > how
> > > I
> > > > > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA exists
in
> > > > certain
> > > > > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but that
> there
> > is
> > > > NO
> > > > > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation. It's
> just
> > > too
> > > > > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into every
> > game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Walker
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again there
> isn't.
> > > > Got it.
> > > >
> > > > Colombo
> > > > LQ Houston
> > > > 9DV
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > You know, I really wish you would quit with your anti Houston posting
> Frodo.
> > Its really unbecoming of you.
> >
> > Colombo
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
> >
> >
>
> How was his posting of his interpretation of what I said anti-Houston? Or
> did my newsreader filter out the "PS Houston Sucks" comment at the bottom?
>
> Walker
>
>

It was a joke Jeff......

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




08 Aug 2004 10:02:46
Housekeeping
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> > > You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> > > > individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
> > > > shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
> > > > same style in both!
> > > >
> > > > 0 0 7
> > >
> > > It doesn't surprise me why people don't understand how we play, how we
> score
> > > points, and how we do so well at tournaments when I see things like
> this.
> > > And John wonders why you can't grasp some of his more complex issues,
> when
> > > you're struggling to understand this.
> > >
> > > Walker
> >
> > Right, because we've never been able to hang, right?
> >
> > It's not like we don't play like a team and do certain things differently.
> > <rolls eyes> Grasp it.
> >
> >
> > 0 0 7
> >
> >
>
> Newsflash. You're the one claiming that people "will generally play the
> same style in both [an individual tournament and a team tournamennt]" not
> me. Tell yourself to grasp it, because I understood what you said.
>
> And where did I ever say that "nobody has ever been able to hang with us".
> Jesus you need to learn to read and what is written and not what you think
> is written.
>
> Walker

I can't believe I actually read that exchange.

Let's break that down real quick.


Original Statement: "Everyone plays the SAME in Tournament styles A
and B. Duh."

Response: "Wow, if you believe that, no wonder you don't understand
our style, because we believe the opposite."

Second Statement: "Pfft, we play DIFFERENT in Tournament styles A and
B. Duh."

Confusion ensues: "Wait.. what?"


Good times.

Fenrir
Paragon


08 Aug 2004 14:43:17
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Yeah Jeff, calm down... even I recognized it as a joke :-p
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical > wrote in message
news:ZGsRc.928$Tf7.329@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:m5kRc.220989$a24.154424@attbi_s03...
> > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > news:EAgRc.847$_p.264@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:0DaRc.45138$Jq2.2183924@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation. Under
> > > certain
> > > > circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential to)
> play
> > a
> > > > roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
> > > > --
> > > > *$pam*
> > > > LQ Brampton
> > > > Two points better than you!!!
> > > >
> > > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > > news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > > > > > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > > > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every
situation,
> > > > because
> > > > > > > every
> > > > > > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA, and
it
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 0 0 7
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I didn't
> say
> > I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much sums
> up
> > > how
> > > > I
> > > > > > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA
exists
> in
> > > > > certain
> > > > > > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but that
> > there
> > > is
> > > > > NO
> > > > > > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation. It's
> > just
> > > > too
> > > > > > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into
every
> > > game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Walker
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again there
> > isn't.
> > > > > Got it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Colombo
> > > > > LQ Houston
> > > > > 9DV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > You know, I really wish you would quit with your anti Houston posting
> > Frodo.
> > > Its really unbecoming of you.
> > >
> > > Colombo
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
> > >
> > >
> >
> > How was his posting of his interpretation of what I said anti-Houston?
Or
> > did my newsreader filter out the "PS Houston Sucks" comment at the
bottom?
> >
> > Walker
> >
> >
>
> It was a joke Jeff......
>
> Colombo
> LQ Houston
> 9DV
>
>




09 Aug 2004 04:59:15
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

fuck you, you Frodo looking assmonkey! ;)

Sorry Ramiro, my bad. I assumed any joke directed at SPAM would include the
word Frodo.

Walker

"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message
news:KHvRc.5456$Mq1.184164@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Yeah Jeff, calm down... even I recognized it as a joke :-p
> --
> *$pam*
> LQ Brampton
> Two points better than you!!!
>
> "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> news:ZGsRc.928$Tf7.329@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > news:m5kRc.220989$a24.154424@attbi_s03...
> > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > news:EAgRc.847$_p.264@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > > >
> > > > "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:0DaRc.45138$Jq2.2183924@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation.
Under
> > > > certain
> > > > > circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential to)
> > play
> > > a
> > > > > roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
> > > > > --
> > > > > *$pam*
> > > > > LQ Brampton
> > > > > Two points better than you!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > > > news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > > > > > > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > > > > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every
> situation,
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > > every
> > > > > > > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle ground.
> > > > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA,
and
> it
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 0 0 7
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I
didn't
> > say
> > > I
> > > > > > think
> > > > > > > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much
sums
> > up
> > > > how
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA
> exists
> > in
> > > > > > certain
> > > > > > > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but
that
> > > there
> > > > is
> > > > > > NO
> > > > > > > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation.
It's
> > > just
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into
> every
> > > > game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again
there
> > > isn't.
> > > > > > Got it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Colombo
> > > > > > LQ Houston
> > > > > > 9DV
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know, I really wish you would quit with your anti Houston
posting
> > > Frodo.
> > > > Its really unbecoming of you.
> > > >
> > > > Colombo
> > > > LQ Houston
> > > > 9DV
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > How was his posting of his interpretation of what I said anti-Houston?
> Or
> > > did my newsreader filter out the "PS Houston Sucks" comment at the
> bottom?
> > >
> > > Walker
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It was a joke Jeff......
> >
> > Colombo
> > LQ Houston
> > 9DV
> >
> >
>
>




09 Aug 2004 05:51:12
Daddy
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com > wrote in message
news:CwDRc.115390$eM2.63353@attbi_s51...
> fuck you, you Frodo looking assmonkey! ;)
>
> Sorry Ramiro, my bad. I assumed any joke directed at SPAM would include
the
> word Frodo.
>
> Walker
>
> "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> news:KHvRc.5456$Mq1.184164@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Yeah Jeff, calm down... even I recognized it as a joke :-p
> > --
> > *$pam*
> > LQ Brampton
> > Two points better than you!!!
> >
> > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > news:ZGsRc.928$Tf7.329@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > news:m5kRc.220989$a24.154424@attbi_s03...
> > > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > > news:EAgRc.847$_p.264@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:0DaRc.45138$Jq2.2183924@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation.
> Under
> > > > > certain
> > > > > > circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential
to)
> > > play
> > > > a
> > > > > > roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > *$pam*
> > > > > > LQ Brampton
> > > > > > Two points better than you!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > > > > > > > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > > > > > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every
> > situation,
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > every
> > > > > > > > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle
ground.
> > > > > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA,
> and
> > it
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 0 0 7
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I
> didn't
> > > say
> > > > I
> > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much
> sums
> > > up
> > > > > how
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA
> > exists
> > > in
> > > > > > > certain
> > > > > > > > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but
> that
> > > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > NO
> > > > > > > > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation.
> It's
> > > > just
> > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into
> > every
> > > > > game.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again
> there
> > > > isn't.
> > > > > > > Got it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Colombo
> > > > > > > LQ Houston
> > > > > > > 9DV
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You know, I really wish you would quit with your anti Houston
> posting
> > > > Frodo.
> > > > > Its really unbecoming of you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Colombo
> > > > > LQ Houston
> > > > > 9DV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > How was his posting of his interpretation of what I said
anti-Houston?
> > Or
> > > > did my newsreader filter out the "PS Houston Sucks" comment at the
> > bottom?
> > > >
> > > > Walker
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > It was a joke Jeff......
> > >
> > > Colombo
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
> > >
> > >
> >

Its cool, no biggie. Its hard to pick up on sarcasm when you can't see the
person and all you got is the written word.

Colombo
LQ Houston
9DV




09 Aug 2004 14:56:07
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

It DID include the word Frodo, it was the last word in his post before his
sig :-p
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com > wrote in message
news:CwDRc.115390$eM2.63353@attbi_s51...
> fuck you, you Frodo looking assmonkey! ;)
>
> Sorry Ramiro, my bad. I assumed any joke directed at SPAM would include
the
> word Frodo.
>
> Walker
>
> "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> news:KHvRc.5456$Mq1.184164@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Yeah Jeff, calm down... even I recognized it as a joke :-p
> > --
> > *$pam*
> > LQ Brampton
> > Two points better than you!!!
> >
> > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > news:ZGsRc.928$Tf7.329@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > news:m5kRc.220989$a24.154424@attbi_s03...
> > > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > > news:EAgRc.847$_p.264@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:0DaRc.45138$Jq2.2183924@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation.
> Under
> > > > > certain
> > > > > > circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential
to)
> > > play
> > > > a
> > > > > > roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > *$pam*
> > > > > > LQ Brampton
> > > > > > Two points better than you!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > > > > > > > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > > > > > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every
> > situation,
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > every
> > > > > > > > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle
ground.
> > > > > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's HMA,
> and
> > it
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 0 0 7
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I
> didn't
> > > say
> > > > I
> > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty much
> sums
> > > up
> > > > > how
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA
> > exists
> > > in
> > > > > > > certain
> > > > > > > > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but
> that
> > > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > NO
> > > > > > > > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation.
> It's
> > > > just
> > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go into
> > every
> > > > > game.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again
> there
> > > > isn't.
> > > > > > > Got it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Colombo
> > > > > > > LQ Houston
> > > > > > > 9DV
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You know, I really wish you would quit with your anti Houston
> posting
> > > > Frodo.
> > > > > Its really unbecoming of you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Colombo
> > > > > LQ Houston
> > > > > 9DV
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > How was his posting of his interpretation of what I said
anti-Houston?
> > Or
> > > > did my newsreader filter out the "PS Houston Sucks" comment at the
> > bottom?
> > > >
> > > > Walker
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > It was a joke Jeff......
> > >
> > > Colombo
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




09 Aug 2004 23:52:48
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Yep.. I'm blind. And lysdexic too!

Walker

"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message
news:hPPRc.10610$Mq1.492524@news20.bellglobal.com...
> It DID include the word Frodo, it was the last word in his post before his
> sig :-p
> --
> *$pam*
> LQ Brampton
> Two points better than you!!!
>
> "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:CwDRc.115390$eM2.63353@attbi_s51...
> > fuck you, you Frodo looking assmonkey! ;)
> >
> > Sorry Ramiro, my bad. I assumed any joke directed at SPAM would include
> the
> > word Frodo.
> >
> > Walker
> >
> > "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:KHvRc.5456$Mq1.184164@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Yeah Jeff, calm down... even I recognized it as a joke :-p
> > > --
> > > *$pam*
> > > LQ Brampton
> > > Two points better than you!!!
> > >
> > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > news:ZGsRc.928$Tf7.329@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > > >
> > > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:m5kRc.220989$a24.154424@attbi_s03...
> > > > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > > > news:EAgRc.847$_p.264@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:0DaRc.45138$Jq2.2183924@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > > No, what he's saying is it depends on the maze and situation.
> > Under
> > > > > > certain
> > > > > > > circumstances, he believes that HMA CAN (Or, has the potential
> to)
> > > > play
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > roll. He just hasn't said what those circumstances are.
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > *$pam*
> > > > > > > LQ Brampton
> > > > > > > Two points better than you!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Daddy" <rcastano13@yahoo.comical> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:DP9Rc.3319$dp4.2226@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:Ug7Rc.89444$8_6.77670@attbi_s04...
> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I believe that a
> > > > > > > > > > > generalization such as HMA can not be made in every
> > > situation,
> > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > > every
> > > > > > > > > > > situation is different, and this leads to a middle
> ground.
> > > > > > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Right, so you disagree. That's fine. I think there's
HMA,
> > and
> > > it
> > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > suprise me that you'd think the opposite.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 0 0 7
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Learn to read. AGAIN! I didn't say it doesn't exist. I
> > didn't
> > > > say
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > the opposite of you. That one statement I made pretty
much
> > sums
> > > > up
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > feel. Once more for clarificaiton purposes: I believe HMA
> > > exists
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > certain
> > > > > > > > > situations, and HMA doesn't exist in other situations, but
> > that
> > > > > there
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > NO
> > > > > > > > > way to say for certain that HMA exists in every situation.
> > It's
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > broad of a statement with the number of factors that go
into
> > > every
> > > > > > game.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Walker
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So what you are saying is that there is HMA, and then again
> > there
> > > > > isn't.
> > > > > > > > Got it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Colombo
> > > > > > > > LQ Houston
> > > > > > > > 9DV
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You know, I really wish you would quit with your anti Houston
> > posting
> > > > > Frodo.
> > > > > > Its really unbecoming of you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Colombo
> > > > > > LQ Houston
> > > > > > 9DV
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How was his posting of his interpretation of what I said
> anti-Houston?
> > > Or
> > > > > did my newsreader filter out the "PS Houston Sucks" comment at the
> > > bottom?
> > > > >
> > > > > Walker
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It was a joke Jeff......
> > > >
> > > > Colombo
> > > > LQ Houston
> > > > 9DV
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




09 Aug 2004 18:27:27
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com > wrote in message
news:kf7Rc.221457$%_6.133908@attbi_s01...
>
> "Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:9w1Rc.12007$ih.10617@fed1read07...
> >
> > "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > news:7UEQc.252314$Oq2.199554@attbi_s52...
> > >
> > > "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> > > news:77202989.0408051151.56e89cc6@posting.google.com...
> > > You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> > > > individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
> > > > shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
> > > > same style in both!
> > > >
> > > > 0 0 7
> > >
> > > It doesn't surprise me why people don't understand how we play, how we
> > score
> > > points, and how we do so well at tournaments when I see things like
> this.
> > > And John wonders why you can't grasp some of his more complex issues,
> when
> > > you're struggling to understand this.
> > >
> > > Walker
> >
> > Right, because we've never been able to hang, right?
> >
> > It's not like we don't play like a team and do certain things
differently.
> > <rolls eyes> Grasp it.
> >
> >
> > 0 0 7
> >
> >
>
> Newsflash. You're the one claiming that people "will generally play the
> same style in both [an individual tournament and a team tournamennt]" not
> me. Tell yourself to grasp it, because I understood what you said.
>
> And where did I ever say that "nobody has ever been able to hang with us".
> Jesus you need to learn to read and what is written and not what you think
> is written.
>
> Walker

Ok!




09 Aug 2004 18:29:14
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Housekeeping" <housekeepinglq@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:ae55ba39.0408080902.32f3611e@posting.google.com...
> > > > You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> > > > > individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
> > > > > shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
> > > > > same style in both!
> > > > >
> > > > > 0 0 7
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't surprise me why people don't understand how we play, how
we
> > score
> > > > points, and how we do so well at tournaments when I see things like
> > this.
> > > > And John wonders why you can't grasp some of his more complex
issues,
> > when
> > > > you're struggling to understand this.
> > > >
> > > > Walker
> > >
> > > Right, because we've never been able to hang, right?
> > >
> > > It's not like we don't play like a team and do certain things
differently.
> > > <rolls eyes> Grasp it.
> > >
> > >
> > > 0 0 7
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Newsflash. You're the one claiming that people "will generally play the
> > same style in both [an individual tournament and a team tournamennt]"
not
> > me. Tell yourself to grasp it, because I understood what you said.
> >
> > And where did I ever say that "nobody has ever been able to hang with
us".
> > Jesus you need to learn to read and what is written and not what you
think
> > is written.
> >
> > Walker
>
> I can't believe I actually read that exchange.
>
> Let's break that down real quick.
>
>
> Original Statement: "Everyone plays the SAME in Tournament styles A
> and B. Duh."
>
> Response: "Wow, if you believe that, no wonder you don't understand
> our style, because we believe the opposite."
>
> Second Statement: "Pfft, we play DIFFERENT in Tournament styles A and
> B. Duh."
>
> Confusion ensues: "Wait.. what?"
>
>
> Good times.
>
> Fenrir
> Paragon

That's one of the best Denver posts ever. Piece out the parts that work best
for the argument you're making, lol. Why bother with worthless facts and
hundreds of other posts that clarify my points?

Good times indeed.


0 0 7




10 Aug 2004 04:24:45
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:wyVRc.17834$ih.13922@fed1read07...

> That's one of the best Denver posts ever. Piece out the parts that work
best
> for the argument you're making, lol. Why bother with worthless facts and
> hundreds of other posts that clarify my points?
>
> Good times indeed.
>
>
> 0 0 7

What are you talking about?

It's an extremely accurate summary of the exchange.

YOU claimed that people play the same style in team tournaments as they
do in individual tournaments. In fact, that was the whole point of your
response to me!

Then Walker pointed out that with your position, he's not surprised you
don't understand how we score points (which you have specifically said about
us!)

Then YOU completely flip-flopped and claimed (condescendingly) that you
play differently in team games.

What piecing out of the argument was there? How are the exact points
you were making worthless facts?? What other posts (let alone hundreds of
them) clarify your completely contradictory positions???

You seem to be saying whatever you want to try to make it look like you
didn't say something stupid - and digging yourself in deeper each time. If
I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

] MALICE [




10 Aug 2004 05:34:39
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:wyVRc.17834$ih.13922@fed1read07...
>
> "Housekeeping" <housekeepinglq@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ae55ba39.0408080902.32f3611e@posting.google.com...
> > > > > You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> > > > > > individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything
that
> > > > > > shows a difference between the two. People will generally play
the
> > > > > > same style in both!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 0 0 7
> > > > >
> > > > > It doesn't surprise me why people don't understand how we play,
how
> we
> > > score
> > > > > points, and how we do so well at tournaments when I see things
like
> > > this.
> > > > > And John wonders why you can't grasp some of his more complex
> issues,
> > > when
> > > > > you're struggling to understand this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Walker
> > > >
> > > > Right, because we've never been able to hang, right?
> > > >
> > > > It's not like we don't play like a team and do certain things
> differently.
> > > > <rolls eyes> Grasp it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 0 0 7
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Newsflash. You're the one claiming that people "will generally play
the
> > > same style in both [an individual tournament and a team tournamennt]"
> not
> > > me. Tell yourself to grasp it, because I understood what you said.
> > >
> > > And where did I ever say that "nobody has ever been able to hang with
> us".
> > > Jesus you need to learn to read and what is written and not what you
> think
> > > is written.
> > >
> > > Walker
> >
> > I can't believe I actually read that exchange.
> >
> > Let's break that down real quick.
> >
> >
> > Original Statement: "Everyone plays the SAME in Tournament styles A
> > and B. Duh."
> >
> > Response: "Wow, if you believe that, no wonder you don't understand
> > our style, because we believe the opposite."
> >
> > Second Statement: "Pfft, we play DIFFERENT in Tournament styles A and
> > B. Duh."
> >
> > Confusion ensues: "Wait.. what?"
> >
> >
> > Good times.
> >
> > Fenrir
> > Paragon
>
> That's one of the best Denver posts ever. Piece out the parts that work
best
> for the argument you're making, lol. Why bother with worthless facts and
> hundreds of other posts that clarify my points?
>
> Good times indeed.
>
>
> 0 0 7
>
>

I think "Hey look over there." *points* "It's Superman!" would have been a
better way to distract people from the fact that EVERYTHING he summerized
was posted right above it, and that it was right on.

Walker




10 Aug 2004 09:14:10
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> I think "Hey look over there." *points* "It's Superman!" would have been a
> better way to distract people from the fact that EVERYTHING he summerized
> was posted right above it, and that it was right on.
>
> Walker

Yeah, just take everything out of context, right? Why ask someone what
he thinks when you can just make it look like you *know* what he
thinks? That's easier, right? I mean, it's the same guy that we've
involved in every LQ conspiracy since the dawn of time, so we might as
well. Grab your torch and pichfork.

Since he missed it, I'll repeat it for the millionth time:

I believe that there is some element of HMA for any home team player,
in any tournament, at any time. I believe that the amount of advantage
can vary from situation to situation, but it will exist nonetheless.
Even one tag extra per game is still an advantage, and sometimes I
think it will equate to much more. Only in situations where teams are
close in skill level, will this factor become more important. Most of
the time, it will not be enough to overcome a more skilled team. I
believe there have been several examples of this happening, and I'll
gladly list them again if you'd like.


0 0 7


10 Aug 2004 15:49:03
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:77202989.0408100814.38d70d03@posting.google.com...
> > I think "Hey look over there." *points* "It's Superman!" would have
been a
> > better way to distract people from the fact that EVERYTHING he
summerized
> > was posted right above it, and that it was right on.
> >
> > Walker
>
> Yeah, just take everything out of context, right? Why ask someone what
> he thinks when you can just make it look like you *know* what he
> thinks? That's easier, right? I mean, it's the same guy that we've
> involved in every LQ conspiracy since the dawn of time, so we might as
> well. Grab your torch and pichfork.


Put your fucking Frankenstein hunt back in the closet and pay attention.
I'm not out to debunk your claims, which show you sit on the fence and lean
left or right depending on the breeze, and I certainly haven't claimed that
you've been involved in every single LQ Conspiracy. Actually, I think more
people (including you) claim that we're involved in more LQ conspiracies
than anyone else.

I don't really care that you're now claiming HMA can be dependant on
circumstances, which is something I don't remember you saying before I
brought it up, but this discussion isn't about HMA even though you try and
bring it back to that by posting your last paragraph there. On top of that,
I actually remember you arguing with me when I said that about HMA because
"I think the opposite" of you, when I really didn't, I just thought
something other than you what you posted. I do however, care that you are
now claiming I took something out of context when I didn't. I took the
appropriate portion of the first paragraph in my first post. The part
before that wasn't related to the last comment made. The second time I used
your entire post. I didn't delete anything so I couldn't have taken
anything there out of context.

Taking something out of context means that some piece of "a statement" is
removed that changes the meaning of "the statement". Example: I state "You
know, if it weren't for the sex I think I could be homosexual. Because
every day is just hanging out with your buddies". (Bill Engval joke for
those of you who don't know) You quote "I think I could be homosexual." and
use it to tell everyone that I'm a homosexual. That's out of context
because you've used part of a quote to change the meaning of the statement.

Taking something out of context does not mean that someone has used a
complete statement to debunk someone's claims, but failed to include
statements made in the past on the same subject. Example: I state "I'm
homosexual", you call me gay, and I say "You took me out of context because
5 days ago I said "I'm straight". It doesn't work like that. My comment
about how you feel "People generally play the same style in both" was not
out of context.

But, for the sake of my sanity I'll give you a chance to prove you're right,
and that I did take you out of context. Here is your entire post, which led
to my comment about "With posts like this, it doesn't surprise me....".
Please tell me where in this post you state that you feel people play
different in team games as compared to solo games to prove I took you out of
context. Because if I took anything out of context, it was your statement
about how "People will generally play the same style in both" to which I
added [a solo tournament or a team tournament.] for clarification purposes.
That is the only thing the previous replies refer too, they don't talk about
HMA at all.

>>>
What? We've both had home maze advantage John. Somehow, you've drawn
the conclusion that it actually hurts you (!), when I've concluded
that it helped me (iNAC). You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
same style in both!

My example in a previous post pointed out that I'd be shoting your ass
through the same "Nate holes" at NAC that I did at iNAC. Moreover, our
WHOLE TEAM would be using these holes - thus creating an even BIGGER
advantage! At iNAC, you just had to worry about me, at NAC (a team
event), you'd have to worry about us all!!


0 0 7
<<<

Walker
Would you like a squishee with that?




10 Aug 2004 15:07:37
Housekeeping
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> That's one of the best Denver posts ever. Piece out the parts that work best
> for the argument you're making, lol. Why bother with worthless facts and
> hundreds of other posts that clarify my points?
>
> Good times indeed.
>
>
> 0 0 7

Er...

2 quick things. I never intended to get involved in the actual debate
going on, a.k.a. your endless quest to excuse past losses. So excuse
me for not cross referencing the points you've made in your countless
posts about something you've never even experienced. I was just
pointing out a specific exchange between you and Jeff which I found
humorous. You managed a very good Kerry imitation, and even a good
Democrat like me can see humor in it.

Second, I posted exact quotes of the exchange I was making fun of. How
I managed to pull something out of context with exact quotes of the
entire conversation is beyond me, but I promise that wasn't my
intention.

Now, whether you actually meant to flip flop your arguement so bad in
those two posts of yours is none of my business, but you did. Anyone
who speaks english understands that, and would laugh about it, even if
it was accidental. But don't accuse me of something so over dramatic.

Fenrir
Paragon


11 Aug 2004 08:52:24
Nate
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

> Er...
>
> 2 quick things. I never intended to get involved in the actual debate
> going on, a.k.a. your endless quest to excuse past losses.

Get the fuck outta here with that shit man. Now I KNOW you haven't
been reading any of my posts. What "losses" was I trying to excuse by
arguing for HMA?? iNAC in Phoenix? Denver Regionals?? That's just
completely absurd, and it reaffirms my initial thoughts that you were
just arguing for argument's sake. If the posts I made were written by
anyone outside of Phoenix, maybe you would have read what was written,
instead of making assumptions and drawing false conclusions.

> So excuse
> me for not cross referencing the points you've made in your countless
> posts about something you've never even experienced.

Right. iNAC was in Never-Never land.

Experience isn't necessarly a requisite of comprehension. Like
CherryBomb said - it's just common sense!

> I was just
> pointing out a specific exchange between you and Jeff which I found
> humorous. You managed a very good Kerry imitation, and even a good
> Democrat like me can see humor in it.

Awwweee....good little Democrat <pats head >

> Second, I posted exact quotes of the exchange I was making fun of.

I know - and you left out key parts of others. Duh.

> How
> I managed to pull something out of context with exact quotes of the
> entire conversation is beyond me, but I promise that wasn't my
> intention.

I know what your intention was. It was pretty clear. Unprovoked
attacks are becoming more and more commonplace up in Denver. You guys
take it so personally that people beliece HMA exists =(

> Now, whether you actually meant to flip flop your arguement so bad in
> those two posts of yours is none of my business, but you did. Anyone
> who speaks english understands that, and would laugh about it, even if
> it was accidental. But don't accuse me of something so over dramatic.

Next time, when you feel the need to talk shit for no reason - just
don't (espectially if you "never intended to get involved in the
debate"). Your post was completely out of context, and it did NOT
include the whole conversation.

I think I've been pretty damned clear about my thoughts on this
thread. Only someone with bad intentions would have interpreted it any
other way. I've posted a million times what I think about this topic,
and if there's any particular part that you're confused about - just
ask me, and I'll clarify.

> Fenrir
> Paragon


0 0 7


11 Aug 2004 19:18:41
Nate Roberts
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com > wrote in message
news:GmbSc.39999$V96.37048@cyclops.nntpserver.com...
> "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:77202989.0408100814.38d70d03@posting.google.com...
> > > I think "Hey look over there." *points* "It's Superman!" would have
> been a
> > > better way to distract people from the fact that EVERYTHING he
> summerized
> > > was posted right above it, and that it was right on.
> > >
> > > Walker
> >
> > Yeah, just take everything out of context, right? Why ask someone what
> > he thinks when you can just make it look like you *know* what he
> > thinks? That's easier, right? I mean, it's the same guy that we've
> > involved in every LQ conspiracy since the dawn of time, so we might as
> > well. Grab your torch and pichfork.
>
>
> Put your fucking Frankenstein hunt back in the closet and pay attention.
> I'm not out to debunk your claims, which show you sit on the fence and
lean
> left or right depending on the breeze, and I certainly haven't claimed
that
> you've been involved in every single LQ Conspiracy. Actually, I think
more
> people (including you) claim that we're involved in more LQ conspiracies
> than anyone else.
>
> I don't really care that you're now claiming HMA can be dependant on
> circumstances, which is something I don't remember you saying before I
> brought it up, but this discussion isn't about HMA even though you try and
> bring it back to that by posting your last paragraph there. On top of
that,
> I actually remember you arguing with me when I said that about HMA because
> "I think the opposite" of you, when I really didn't, I just thought
> something other than you what you posted. I do however, care that you are
> now claiming I took something out of context when I didn't. I took the
> appropriate portion of the first paragraph in my first post. The part
> before that wasn't related to the last comment made. The second time I
used
> your entire post. I didn't delete anything so I couldn't have taken
> anything there out of context.
>
> Taking something out of context means that some piece of "a statement" is
> removed that changes the meaning of "the statement". Example: I state
"You
> know, if it weren't for the sex I think I could be homosexual. Because
> every day is just hanging out with your buddies". (Bill Engval joke for
> those of you who don't know) You quote "I think I could be homosexual."
and
> use it to tell everyone that I'm a homosexual. That's out of context
> because you've used part of a quote to change the meaning of the
statement.
>
> Taking something out of context does not mean that someone has used a
> complete statement to debunk someone's claims, but failed to include
> statements made in the past on the same subject. Example: I state "I'm
> homosexual", you call me gay, and I say "You took me out of context
because
> 5 days ago I said "I'm straight". It doesn't work like that. My comment
> about how you feel "People generally play the same style in both" was not
> out of context.
>
> But, for the sake of my sanity I'll give you a chance to prove you're
right,
> and that I did take you out of context. Here is your entire post, which
led
> to my comment about "With posts like this, it doesn't surprise me....".
> Please tell me where in this post you state that you feel people play
> different in team games as compared to solo games to prove I took you out
of
> context. Because if I took anything out of context, it was your statement
> about how "People will generally play the same style in both" to which I
> added [a solo tournament or a team tournament.] for clarification
purposes.
> That is the only thing the previous replies refer too, they don't talk
about
> HMA at all.
>
> >>>
> What? We've both had home maze advantage John. Somehow, you've drawn
> the conclusion that it actually hurts you (!), when I've concluded
> that it helped me (iNAC). You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
> shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
> same style in both!
>
> My example in a previous post pointed out that I'd be shoting your ass
> through the same "Nate holes" at NAC that I did at iNAC. Moreover, our
> WHOLE TEAM would be using these holes - thus creating an even BIGGER
> advantage! At iNAC, you just had to worry about me, at NAC (a team
> event), you'd have to worry about us all!!
>
>
> 0 0 7
> <<<
>
> Walker
> Would you like a squishee with that?

Unreal.




12 Aug 2004 06:59:23
Jeff Rokosz
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:OrASc.27734$ih.27155@fed1read07...
>
> "Jeff Rokosz" <psychoboh@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:GmbSc.39999$V96.37048@cyclops.nntpserver.com...
> > "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:77202989.0408100814.38d70d03@posting.google.com...
> > > > I think "Hey look over there." *points* "It's Superman!" would have
> > been a
> > > > better way to distract people from the fact that EVERYTHING he
> > summerized
> > > > was posted right above it, and that it was right on.
> > > >
> > > > Walker
> > >
> > > Yeah, just take everything out of context, right? Why ask someone what
> > > he thinks when you can just make it look like you *know* what he
> > > thinks? That's easier, right? I mean, it's the same guy that we've
> > > involved in every LQ conspiracy since the dawn of time, so we might as
> > > well. Grab your torch and pichfork.
> >
> >
> > Put your fucking Frankenstein hunt back in the closet and pay attention.
> > I'm not out to debunk your claims, which show you sit on the fence and
> lean
> > left or right depending on the breeze, and I certainly haven't claimed
> that
> > you've been involved in every single LQ Conspiracy. Actually, I think
> more
> > people (including you) claim that we're involved in more LQ conspiracies
> > than anyone else.
> >
> > I don't really care that you're now claiming HMA can be dependant on
> > circumstances, which is something I don't remember you saying before I
> > brought it up, but this discussion isn't about HMA even though you try
and
> > bring it back to that by posting your last paragraph there. On top of
> that,
> > I actually remember you arguing with me when I said that about HMA
because
> > "I think the opposite" of you, when I really didn't, I just thought
> > something other than you what you posted. I do however, care that you
are
> > now claiming I took something out of context when I didn't. I took the
> > appropriate portion of the first paragraph in my first post. The part
> > before that wasn't related to the last comment made. The second time I
> used
> > your entire post. I didn't delete anything so I couldn't have taken
> > anything there out of context.
> >
> > Taking something out of context means that some piece of "a statement"
is
> > removed that changes the meaning of "the statement". Example: I state
> "You
> > know, if it weren't for the sex I think I could be homosexual. Because
> > every day is just hanging out with your buddies". (Bill Engval joke for
> > those of you who don't know) You quote "I think I could be homosexual."
> and
> > use it to tell everyone that I'm a homosexual. That's out of context
> > because you've used part of a quote to change the meaning of the
> statement.
> >
> > Taking something out of context does not mean that someone has used a
> > complete statement to debunk someone's claims, but failed to include
> > statements made in the past on the same subject. Example: I state "I'm
> > homosexual", you call me gay, and I say "You took me out of context
> because
> > 5 days ago I said "I'm straight". It doesn't work like that. My
comment
> > about how you feel "People generally play the same style in both" was
not
> > out of context.
> >
> > But, for the sake of my sanity I'll give you a chance to prove you're
> right,
> > and that I did take you out of context. Here is your entire post, which
> led
> > to my comment about "With posts like this, it doesn't surprise me....".
> > Please tell me where in this post you state that you feel people play
> > different in team games as compared to solo games to prove I took you
out
> of
> > context. Because if I took anything out of context, it was your
statement
> > about how "People will generally play the same style in both" to which I
> > added [a solo tournament or a team tournament.] for clarification
> purposes.
> > That is the only thing the previous replies refer too, they don't talk
> about
> > HMA at all.
> >
> > >>>
> > What? We've both had home maze advantage John. Somehow, you've drawn
> > the conclusion that it actually hurts you (!), when I've concluded
> > that it helped me (iNAC). You're sticking to this whole 'team vs.
> > individual tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that
> > shows a difference between the two. People will generally play the
> > same style in both!
> >
> > My example in a previous post pointed out that I'd be shoting your ass
> > through the same "Nate holes" at NAC that I did at iNAC. Moreover, our
> > WHOLE TEAM would be using these holes - thus creating an even BIGGER
> > advantage! At iNAC, you just had to worry about me, at NAC (a team
> > event), you'd have to worry about us all!!
> >
> >
> > 0 0 7
> > <<<
> >
> > Walker
> > Would you like a squishee with that?
>
> Unreal.
>

Maybe I should have asked you if you wanted something to stand on instead of
a squishee?

Walker




13 Aug 2004 00:53:26
Malice
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"Nate" <nater@cox.net > wrote in message
news:77202989.0408110752.7ca60172@posting.google.com...

> > So excuse
> > me for not cross referencing the points you've made in your countless
> > posts about something you've never even experienced.
>
> Right. iNAC was in Never-Never land.

iNAC wasn't a team event - and by your own (eventual) admission, even
you do things differently in team games, moreover, that means you wouldn't
be able to experience the effect being at home had on your mental attitudes,
teamwork, etc. Until you go into a team game and experience for yourself
how there's really no benefit to knowing every square inch of the maze,
you're not going to understand.

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever understand, because Denver's
retiring, and it looks like Mt. View and Springs are at least falling off
after this year. You may have a regional in Arizona some day, but I don't
think you'll be challenged when it happens.

> > I was just
> > pointing out a specific exchange between you and Jeff which I found
> > humorous. You managed a very good Kerry imitation, and even a good
> > Democrat like me can see humor in it.
>
> Awwweee....good little Democrat <pats head>

I wonder why people think you're an ass?

> > Second, I posted exact quotes of the exchange I was making fun of.
>
> I know - and you left out key parts of others. Duh.

How can he leave out key parts of exchanges he wasn't addressing?!?!?

Besides, I'm sure if you could actually point to any such alleged "key
parts" you would have. You know there aren't any, so you're just making the
bare (and false) claim that he left them out.

> I know what your intention was. It was pretty clear. Unprovoked
> attacks are becoming more and more commonplace up in Denver.

What are you talking about?? You were condescendingly attacking his
teammate - when what you were saying was flat out false. He didn't attack
you personally in any way - he pointed out the absurdity of your blatant
contradictions.

> Your post was completely out of context, and it did NOT
> include the whole conversation.

His post wasn't "out of context" in any way, shape or form!!! He
correctly summarized your contradictory claims completely IN CONTEXT!

> I've posted a million times what I think about this topic,
> and if there's any particular part that you're confused about - just
> ask me, and I'll clarify.

Fine - clarify this because it is anything but clear!!

YOU wrote: "You're sticking to this whole 'team vs. individual
tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that shows a difference
between the two. People will generally play the same style in both!"

Then in your next response about this YOU wrote: "It's not like we don't
play like a team and do certain things differently."

Which is it??? Do you play the same style in team tournaments as you do
in individual ones (claim 1), or do you play differently (claim 2)?!?!?!

Please, Nate, clarify!

] MALICE [




12 Aug 2004 23:33:49
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

And if it's choice A, no wonder they haven't won the damn thing in 3 years!
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net > wrote in message
news:aiUSc.296221$XM6.252635@attbi_s53...
> "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:77202989.0408110752.7ca60172@posting.google.com...
>
> > > So excuse
> > > me for not cross referencing the points you've made in your countless
> > > posts about something you've never even experienced.
> >
> > Right. iNAC was in Never-Never land.
>
> iNAC wasn't a team event - and by your own (eventual) admission, even
> you do things differently in team games, moreover, that means you wouldn't
> be able to experience the effect being at home had on your mental
attitudes,
> teamwork, etc. Until you go into a team game and experience for yourself
> how there's really no benefit to knowing every square inch of the maze,
> you're not going to understand.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever understand, because Denver's
> retiring, and it looks like Mt. View and Springs are at least falling off
> after this year. You may have a regional in Arizona some day, but I don't
> think you'll be challenged when it happens.
>
> > > I was just
> > > pointing out a specific exchange between you and Jeff which I found
> > > humorous. You managed a very good Kerry imitation, and even a good
> > > Democrat like me can see humor in it.
> >
> > Awwweee....good little Democrat <pats head>
>
> I wonder why people think you're an ass?
>
> > > Second, I posted exact quotes of the exchange I was making fun of.
> >
> > I know - and you left out key parts of others. Duh.
>
> How can he leave out key parts of exchanges he wasn't addressing?!?!?
>
> Besides, I'm sure if you could actually point to any such alleged "key
> parts" you would have. You know there aren't any, so you're just making
the
> bare (and false) claim that he left them out.
>
> > I know what your intention was. It was pretty clear. Unprovoked
> > attacks are becoming more and more commonplace up in Denver.
>
> What are you talking about?? You were condescendingly attacking his
> teammate - when what you were saying was flat out false. He didn't attack
> you personally in any way - he pointed out the absurdity of your blatant
> contradictions.
>
> > Your post was completely out of context, and it did NOT
> > include the whole conversation.
>
> His post wasn't "out of context" in any way, shape or form!!! He
> correctly summarized your contradictory claims completely IN CONTEXT!
>
> > I've posted a million times what I think about this topic,
> > and if there's any particular part that you're confused about - just
> > ask me, and I'll clarify.
>
> Fine - clarify this because it is anything but clear!!
>
> YOU wrote: "You're sticking to this whole 'team vs. individual
> tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that shows a difference
> between the two. People will generally play the same style in both!"
>
> Then in your next response about this YOU wrote: "It's not like we
don't
> play like a team and do certain things differently."
>
> Which is it??? Do you play the same style in team tournaments as you
do
> in individual ones (claim 1), or do you play differently (claim 2)?!?!?!
>
> Please, Nate, clarify!
>
> ] MALICE [
>
>




13 Aug 2004 18:14:27
Darren
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message
news:BGWSc.21322$a65.974931@news20.bellglobal.com...
> And if it's choice A, no wonder they haven't won the damn thing in 3
years!
> --
> *$pam*
> LQ Brampton
> Two points better than you!!!


I can't wait to play Brampton this year

ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS




13 Aug 2004 21:38:10
MouseTrap
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408041141.4ec6b5de@posting.google.com >...
> Whirl_Windhk@hotmail.com (WhirlWind;) wrote in message news:<7c23d00f.0408040623.23da82ec@posting.google.com>...
> > tommybomb88@hotmail.com (CHeRRYBoMB) wrote in message news:<e84be8f7.0408030410.5376f50b@posting.google.com>...
> > > The organsplitters evil grace comes shooting out it's filthy face.
> > >
> > > =D
> > >
> > > Pt
> > > HLQ
> > > STFU
> > >
> >
> > A poet and I didn't even know it...
>
> Sorry. I'll stop quoting obscure bands. Hmmmmm. What would you be familiar with?
>
> I got it.
>
> Tell me why
> Ain't nothin' but a heartache
> Tell me why
> Ain't nothin' but a mistake
> Tell me why
> I never wanna hear you say
> I want it that way
>
> =D
>
> Pt
> HLQ
> STFU

very good tunes


13 Aug 2004 22:02:41
MouseTrap
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message news:<BGWSc.21322$a65.974931@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> And if it's choice A, no wonder they haven't won the damn thing in 3 years!
> --
> *$pam*
> LQ Brampton
> Two points better than you!!!
>
> "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:aiUSc.296221$XM6.252635@attbi_s53...
> > "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:77202989.0408110752.7ca60172@posting.google.com...
> >
> > > > So excuse
> > > > me for not cross referencing the points you've made in your countless
> > > > posts about something you've never even experienced.
> > >
> > > Right. iNAC was in Never-Never land.
> >
> > iNAC wasn't a team event - and by your own (eventual) admission, even
> > you do things differently in team games, moreover, that means you wouldn't
> > be able to experience the effect being at home had on your mental
> attitudes,
> > teamwork, etc. Until you go into a team game and experience for yourself
> > how there's really no benefit to knowing every square inch of the maze,
> > you're not going to understand.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever understand, because Denver's
> > retiring, and it looks like Mt. View and Springs are at least falling off
> > after this year. You may have a regional in Arizona some day, but I don't
> > think you'll be challenged when it happens.
> >
> > > > I was just
> > > > pointing out a specific exchange between you and Jeff which I found
> > > > humorous. You managed a very good Kerry imitation, and even a good
> > > > Democrat like me can see humor in it.
> > >
> > > Awwweee....good little Democrat <pats head>
> >
> > I wonder why people think you're an ass?
> >
> > > > Second, I posted exact quotes of the exchange I was making fun of.
> > >
> > > I know - and you left out key parts of others. Duh.
> >
> > How can he leave out key parts of exchanges he wasn't addressing?!?!?
> >
> > Besides, I'm sure if you could actually point to any such alleged "key
> > parts" you would have. You know there aren't any, so you're just making
> the
> > bare (and false) claim that he left them out.
> >
> > > I know what your intention was. It was pretty clear. Unprovoked
> > > attacks are becoming more and more commonplace up in Denver.
> >
> > What are you talking about?? You were condescendingly attacking his
> > teammate - when what you were saying was flat out false. He didn't attack
> > you personally in any way - he pointed out the absurdity of your blatant
> > contradictions.
> >
> > > Your post was completely out of context, and it did NOT
> > > include the whole conversation.
> >
> > His post wasn't "out of context" in any way, shape or form!!! He
> > correctly summarized your contradictory claims completely IN CONTEXT!
> >
> > > I've posted a million times what I think about this topic,
> > > and if there's any particular part that you're confused about - just
> > > ask me, and I'll clarify.
> >
> > Fine - clarify this because it is anything but clear!!
> >
> > YOU wrote: "You're sticking to this whole 'team vs. individual
> > tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that shows a difference
> > between the two. People will generally play the same style in both!"
> >
> > Then in your next response about this YOU wrote: "It's not like we
> don't
> > play like a team and do certain things differently."
> >
> > Which is it??? Do you play the same style in team tournaments as you
> do
> > in individual ones (claim 1), or do you play differently (claim 2)?!?!?!
> >
> > Please, Nate, clarify!
> >
> > ] MALICE [
> >
> >


Don't you have a ring to destroy?! stop wasting time! hurry you must
get to that mt morador or something!!


14 Aug 2004 02:33:44
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Shit you're right... I was distracted I'm sorry.
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"MouseTrap" <MouseTrap1234@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:61ed466b.0408132102.36109ac1@posting.google.com...
> "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
news:<BGWSc.21322$a65.974931@news20.bellglobal.com >...
> > And if it's choice A, no wonder they haven't won the damn thing in 3
years!
> > --
> > *$pam*
> > LQ Brampton
> > Two points better than you!!!
> >
> > "Malice" <MaliceLQ@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:aiUSc.296221$XM6.252635@attbi_s53...
> > > "Nate" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> > > news:77202989.0408110752.7ca60172@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > > > So excuse
> > > > > me for not cross referencing the points you've made in your
countless
> > > > > posts about something you've never even experienced.
> > > >
> > > > Right. iNAC was in Never-Never land.
> > >
> > > iNAC wasn't a team event - and by your own (eventual) admission,
even
> > > you do things differently in team games, moreover, that means you
wouldn't
> > > be able to experience the effect being at home had on your mental
> > attitudes,
> > > teamwork, etc. Until you go into a team game and experience for
yourself
> > > how there's really no benefit to knowing every square inch of the
maze,
> > > you're not going to understand.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever understand, because
Denver's
> > > retiring, and it looks like Mt. View and Springs are at least falling
off
> > > after this year. You may have a regional in Arizona some day, but I
don't
> > > think you'll be challenged when it happens.
> > >
> > > > > I was just
> > > > > pointing out a specific exchange between you and Jeff which I
found
> > > > > humorous. You managed a very good Kerry imitation, and even a good
> > > > > Democrat like me can see humor in it.
> > > >
> > > > Awwweee....good little Democrat <pats head>
> > >
> > > I wonder why people think you're an ass?
> > >
> > > > > Second, I posted exact quotes of the exchange I was making fun of.
> > > >
> > > > I know - and you left out key parts of others. Duh.
> > >
> > > How can he leave out key parts of exchanges he wasn't
addressing?!?!?
> > >
> > > Besides, I'm sure if you could actually point to any such alleged
"key
> > > parts" you would have. You know there aren't any, so you're just
making
> > the
> > > bare (and false) claim that he left them out.
> > >
> > > > I know what your intention was. It was pretty clear. Unprovoked
> > > > attacks are becoming more and more commonplace up in Denver.
> > >
> > > What are you talking about?? You were condescendingly attacking
his
> > > teammate - when what you were saying was flat out false. He didn't
attack
> > > you personally in any way - he pointed out the absurdity of your
blatant
> > > contradictions.
> > >
> > > > Your post was completely out of context, and it did NOT
> > > > include the whole conversation.
> > >
> > > His post wasn't "out of context" in any way, shape or form!!! He
> > > correctly summarized your contradictory claims completely IN CONTEXT!
> > >
> > > > I've posted a million times what I think about this topic,
> > > > and if there's any particular part that you're confused about - just
> > > > ask me, and I'll clarify.
> > >
> > > Fine - clarify this because it is anything but clear!!
> > >
> > > YOU wrote: "You're sticking to this whole 'team vs. individual
> > > tournament' thing, and you haven't proven anything that shows a
difference
> > > between the two. People will generally play the same style in both!"
> > >
> > > Then in your next response about this YOU wrote: "It's not like we
> > don't
> > > play like a team and do certain things differently."
> > >
> > > Which is it??? Do you play the same style in team tournaments as
you
> > do
> > > in individual ones (claim 1), or do you play differently (claim
2)?!?!?!
> > >
> > > Please, Nate, clarify!
> > >
> > > ] MALICE [
> > >
> > >
>
>
> Don't you have a ring to destroy?! stop wasting time! hurry you must
> get to that mt morador or something!!




14 Aug 2004 02:34:30
*$pam*
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

Why so you can try harder than you would otherwise? LOL the best team will
perform better, and I look forward to playin against Phoenix myself :)
--
*$pam*
LQ Brampton
Two points better than you!!!

"Darren" <deq@cox.ne t > wrote in message
news:THdTc.77464$sh.39522@fed1read06...
>
> "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> news:BGWSc.21322$a65.974931@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > And if it's choice A, no wonder they haven't won the damn thing in 3
> years!
> > --
> > *$pam*
> > LQ Brampton
> > Two points better than you!!!
>
>
> I can't wait to play Brampton this year
>
> ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS
>
>




14 Aug 2004 01:23:39
Darren
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!


"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message
news:CpiTc.27354$a65.1197499@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Why so you can try harder than you would otherwise? LOL the best team will
> perform better, and I look forward to playin against Phoenix myself :)
> --
> *$pam*
> LQ Brampton
> Two points better than you!!!


Why? I'll tell you why........because I thought your post about Phoenix was
disrespectful. Other than Denver, good luck finding a team with a better
NAC record than Phoenix over the last 7 years. I believe that deserves a
bit of respect.

ZEBRA PHOENIX PYROS




14 Aug 2004 09:35:35
MouseTrap
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

"*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca > wrote in message news:<ZgDQc.43536$Vm1.1015372@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> OK here was the section of my post that dealt with the differences between a
> solo and individual game. The rest of this post can be found later on in the
> thread if you feel like reading the whole thing with my thoughts on HMA as a
> whole.
>
> Why I think home maze advantage plays a much more signifigant role in a
> Solo game. Firstly... in a solo game you don't have your teammates getting
> 'in the way'. You're working for yourself and everything you do is focused
> around earning more points on YOUR scorecard, not anyone else's. If your
> team is playing in their home maze, it's true that you'll all know the best
> spots and such. But it's no guarentee that all 9 players are your team will
> be able to play those spots to their full potential. Lets face it, teams
> have weak links, and teams have players with completely different styles...
> it doesn't make sense to take a sniper out of his sniper-spot because that
> position along the back wall of a tower needs support. Etc etc. But in a
> Solo game... you just move from great spot to great spot until you find your
> zone (in a Solo game, I find players tend to control larger areas than they
> do
> in a team game where they're helping their team, this allows them to run
> from hole to hole and mirror to mirror to control the area and score big
> points for themselves, where if they did that in a team game, they might
> move out of a support position for a teammate which could negatively affect
> your TEAM score even though your INIDIVIDUAL score will increase) and score
> as much as you can.
> You can't do that so well in a team-game... if your forced out of your great
> position, you can't just move onto the next one... because one of your
> teammates might be there already... or one of your teammates needs the
> support you were providing from your original spot, or the other team
> already controls that spot and you can't take it from them because if you
> dog-fight the guy holding that position, you'll get tagged in the back by
> his teammate. Knowing where that mirror is that no one else knows about
> might earn you a few extra tags even in a team-game... but it won't put much
> of a dent in your overall team score if the other team is positioned
> properly, in fact you might not even make that tag because one of that guy's
> teammates just tagged you in the back (and teams like Denver, Westland,
> Houston, Brampton, etc. will be setup so that that is possible). But in a
> Solo game... where people are fending for themselves... those extra tags
> play a much bigger role. It's much much different to play a game where
> someone will be able to call their teammate to tag you in the back while you
> shoot off that mirror they didn't notice but you already knew about, as
> opposed to a Solo game where they can't 'technicaly' call for help and get
> you tagged in the back. Sure there might be someone behind you, but they
> might be focused on other players in that game, and what do they care if you
> tag that bastard near the mirror when they have 3 other targets to shoot at?
> Which is THE main difference... in a Solo game... there's no backup for that
> guy you're beating on... just other people looking for points who may or may
> not try to tag you while they go about scoring as many points as they can.
> But in a team-game... a teammate will very likely take the extra effort to
> tag you and keep their teammate up and scoring. And since it only takes 2 or
> 3 games for an NAC team to learn a maze... they'll already be setup so that
> your Solo potential is held back. And then you need to depend more on your
> team and focus more on helping your team, and tricky mirrors and holes in
> the wall don't help so much with that.
>
> "Nate Roberts" <nater@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:vhAQc.11500$ih.11481@fed1read07...
> >
> > "*$pam*" <jane.bates@symptico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:%LwQc.40550$Vm1.931266@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Paintball is one shot and your out. If LQ was a 1-life game, home maze
> would
> > > be a HUGE advantage without question.
> > >
> > > I'd like to see Malice describe in detail just how he thinks a team game
> > > differs from a solo game... I posted my thoughts on it last week but no
> one
> > > dealt with that section of the post.
> > > --
> > > *$pam*
> >
> > I missed it. Wanna repost?...love to hear what ya think.
> >
> >
> > 0 0 7
> >
> >

debating with 007 is like talking to a wall spam, stop wasting your time


14 Aug 2004 09:52:19
MouseTrap
Re: Home Maze Matters!!!

eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407291823.4e35d3ef@posting.google.com >...
> solo81@yahoo.com (Solotron) wrote in message news:<f1d85cab.0407291007.95c63b1@posting.google.com>...
> > eyetalian22@yahoo.com (Lollipop) wrote in message news:<a9ee449b.0407272146.76cda696@posting.google.com>...
> > > ok- i was reading about all this in lqarena, but didnt want to set up
> > > a username and password so ill post my opinion on the NG's- (i have a
> > > dial up, kinda frustrating) blah blah blah....
> > >
>
> > > Lollipop
> > > LQ Houston
> > > 9DV
> >
> >
> >
> > Your still sore after a month? Try some ben-GAY nick!
> >
> >
> > Solo
>
> did i not say congrats after you guys won? pretty sure i did- this
> post, josh, is directed towards john and nate's argument on lqarena-
> yes, i did say those things about you guys canton and rockford- just
> prove me wrong in rochester- you guys did outplay us in regionals- i
> was probably the first person to say congratulations- you outplayed us
> in a maze VERY familiar to all of you- good job-if you guys beat us,
> canton beats rochester and rockford beats westland- then i will admit
> that i am wrong about all of this- but....if all three of these teams
> outplace the other three teams, i dont see how people cant say that
> home maze matters- i guess we will just wait and see in rochester
>
> Lollipop
> LQ Houston
> 9DV

we have nothing to prove, we did what we wanted to do already