24 Jun 2006 19:56:27
Lescor
Royal Ascot

A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.

It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500 Aus
dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F race it
ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on the
Ascot first day.
It was a popular winner in a close finish over 5F.

He tried for the double on the last day (today) but could only manage 3rd
over his better distance of 6F. Went off Fav, but probably too much to ask
in this class after just 4 days rest.

But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at 33-1
over
2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between three,
but
some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
about
whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
finished
as fresh as paint.

They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.

LC





25 Jun 2006 02:53:04
E-man
Re: Royal Ascot

Ye verily, on Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:56:27 +0100, "Lescor"
<lescor@btinternet.com > did inscribe thusly:
> A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
>the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
>70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
>champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.
>
>It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500 Aus
>dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
>a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
>it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F race it
>ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on the
>Ascot first day.
>It was a popular winner in a close finish over 5F.
>
>He tried for the double on the last day (today) but could only manage 3rd
>over his better distance of 6F. Went off Fav, but probably too much to ask
>in this class after just 4 days rest.

Still a great story. How could the owner afford to ship the horse
from (almost literally) the far side of the planet?

>
>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at 33-1
>over
>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between three,
>but
>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
>about
>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
>finished
>as fresh as paint.
>
>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.

THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! We need more such showcases of stamina
in North America. I've suggested here before that we need an
"endurance series" similar to the Triple Crown and the new Grand Slam
of Turf.

There was a recent editorial in The Bloodhorse about how this year's
Triple Crown race winners all came from staying lines. As if to prove
that all is well in the breeding industry - "Nope, we're not breeding
for speed/precociousness at the expense of stamina/durability, no sir,
nothing to see here, move along...".

Later,
E-man



25 Jun 2006 19:19:22
MmCc
Re: Royal Ascot

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:53:04 GMT, erwin-w@REMOVETHISshaw.ca (E-man)
wrote:

>Ye verily, on Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:56:27 +0100, "Lescor"
><lescor@btinternet.com> did inscribe thusly:
>> A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
>>the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
>>70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
>>champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.
>>
>>It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500 Aus
>>dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
>>a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
>>it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F race it
>>ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on the
>>Ascot first day.

The King's Stand Stakes is a G2

>>It was a popular winner in a close finish over 5F.
>>
>>He tried for the double on the last day (today) but could only manage 3rd
>>over his better distance of 6F. Went off Fav, but probably too much to ask
>>in this class after just 4 days rest.
>
>Still a great story. How could the owner afford to ship the horse
>from (almost literally) the far side of the planet?

He has won something like $2m in Aus in the last couple of years
since they bought him. He is the top sprinter Down Under. It's not
like they bought him for cheap and then flew him straight to Ascot.

Btw, his purchase price was $AUS 1,250 (about $900 US), not 500 as
listed above.... though it's still a great story at that price.


>>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
>>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at 33-1
>>over
>>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between three,
>>but
>>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
>>about
>>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
>>finished
>>as fresh as paint.

What was also impressive in the Queen Alex was the horse that finished
2nd, the favourite, Cover Up (who btw put in a fantastic race, just
getting caught on the line) was carrying 138lbs.
You don't see that often in the US.
I'm so tired of hearing trainers in the US like Bobby Frankel bitch
and moan if a horse has to carry more than 126lbs.

For those that are intersted, here's a replay of Baddam's races...

Ascot Stakes, 2m4f, 30 runners
http://play.www.atr.servecast.net/ppv/atr/frameset.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_24_06_1730

Queen Alexandra, 2m5f
http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo..._06_20_05_1655


>>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.
>
>THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! We need more such showcases of stamina
>in North America. I've suggested here before that we need an
>"endurance series" similar to the Triple Crown and the new Grand Slam
>of Turf.
>
>There was a recent editorial in The Bloodhorse about how this year's
>Triple Crown race winners all came from staying lines. As if to prove
>that all is well in the breeding industry - "Nope, we're not breeding
>for speed/precociousness at the expense of stamina/durability, no sir,
>nothing to see here, move along...".

In fairness, it's not just the Americans that have gone down the speed
route. The Aussies, who we all think of as being the great producers
of distance horses because of the Melbourne Cup etc, have become speed
obsessed. The richest 2yo race in the world is the Golden Slipper in
AUS, worth US$2.6mil, and their breeding industry has become obsessed
with cranking out fast precocious 2yos. Look at a stallion like
Dehere, a top sprinter in the US, is a big fav at stud down there.
Actually his stud fee in Aus is 3 times what it is he Kentucky (he
shuttles for Coolmore).

The Europeans will go the same way too before long. The French Derby
has already been cut to 10.5 furlongs are there is an obsesssion now
with dropping Derby winners back to 10f after the derby to "Prove"
they can win over the American classic distance to improve their stud
value.
They top middle distance horse in Europe right now is Shirocco, but he
is a 12f specialist. If he could win the Eclipse, the Juddmonte, or
Irish Champion stakes he would be worth 5 times as much at stud.

A horse like Vinne Roe wins 3 Irish St Legers (almost 4), 2nd in the
Melbourne Cup, 2nd in the Ascot Gold Cup and goes to stud for a fee of
4,000, a fraction of what top sires get, and not much above
Sporthorse stallion fees. He's unfashionable, and will only National
Hunt mares.


26 Jun 2006 00:30:15
MMcc
Re: Royal Ascot

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:19:22 -0500, MmCc <myemail@myisp.com > wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:53:04 GMT, erwin-w@REMOVETHISshaw.ca (E-man)
>wrote:
>
>>Ye verily, on Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:56:27 +0100, "Lescor"
>><lescor@btinternet.com> did inscribe thusly:
>>> A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
>>>the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
>>>70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
>>>champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.
>>>
>>>It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500 Aus
>>>dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
>>>a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
>>>it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F race it
>>>ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on the
>>>Ascot first day.
>
>The King's Stand Stakes is a G2
>
>>>It was a popular winner in a close finish over 5F.
>>>
>>>He tried for the double on the last day (today) but could only manage 3rd
>>>over his better distance of 6F. Went off Fav, but probably too much to ask
>>>in this class after just 4 days rest.
>>
>>Still a great story. How could the owner afford to ship the horse
>>from (almost literally) the far side of the planet?
>
>He has won something like $2m in Aus in the last couple of years
>since they bought him. He is the top sprinter Down Under. It's not
>like they bought him for cheap and then flew him straight to Ascot.
>
>Btw, his purchase price was $AUS 1,250 (about $900 US), not 500 as
>listed above.... though it's still a great story at that price.
>
>
>>>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
>>>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at 33-1
>>>over
>>>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between three,
>>>but
>>>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
>>>about
>>>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
>>>finished
>>>as fresh as paint.
>
>What was also impressive in the Queen Alex was the horse that finished
>2nd, the favourite, Cover Up (who btw put in a fantastic race, just
>getting caught on the line) was carrying 138lbs.
>You don't see that often in the US.
>I'm so tired of hearing trainers in the US like Bobby Frankel bitch
>and moan if a horse has to carry more than 126lbs.
>
>For those that are intersted, here's a replay of Baddam's races...
>
>Ascot Stakes, 2m4f, 30 runners
>http://play.www.atr.servecast.net/ppv/atr/frameset.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_24_06_1730
>
>Queen Alexandra, 2m5f
>http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo..._06_20_05_1655

Oops, bad link on the last one, here;s the correct link
http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_20_05_1655

Also I have the races reversed, the first is the Queen Alex, the 2nd
the Ascot Stakes.

>>>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.
>>
>>THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! We need more such showcases of stamina
>>in North America. I've suggested here before that we need an
>>"endurance series" similar to the Triple Crown and the new Grand Slam
>>of Turf.
>>
>>There was a recent editorial in The Bloodhorse about how this year's
>>Triple Crown race winners all came from staying lines. As if to prove
>>that all is well in the breeding industry - "Nope, we're not breeding
>>for speed/precociousness at the expense of stamina/durability, no sir,
>>nothing to see here, move along...".
>
>In fairness, it's not just the Americans that have gone down the speed
>route. The Aussies, who we all think of as being the great producers
>of distance horses because of the Melbourne Cup etc, have become speed
>obsessed. The richest 2yo race in the world is the Golden Slipper in
>AUS, worth US$2.6mil, and their breeding industry has become obsessed
>with cranking out fast precocious 2yos. Look at a stallion like
>Dehere, a top sprinter in the US, is a big fav at stud down there.
>Actually his stud fee in Aus is 3 times what it is he Kentucky (he
>shuttles for Coolmore).
>
>The Europeans will go the same way too before long. The French Derby
>has already been cut to 10.5 furlongs are there is an obsesssion now
>with dropping Derby winners back to 10f after the derby to "Prove"
>they can win over the American classic distance to improve their stud
>value.
>They top middle distance horse in Europe right now is Shirocco, but he
>is a 12f specialist. If he could win the Eclipse, the Juddmonte, or
>Irish Champion stakes he would be worth 5 times as much at stud.
>
>A horse like Vinne Roe wins 3 Irish St Legers (almost 4), 2nd in the
>Melbourne Cup, 2nd in the Ascot Gold Cup and goes to stud for a fee of
>4,000, a fraction of what top sires get, and not much above
>Sporthorse stallion fees. He's unfashionable, and will only National
>Hunt mares.


26 Jun 2006 14:39:34
Lescor
Re: Royal Ascot


"MmCc" <myemail@myisp.com > wrote in message
news:nd7u92l0p77r35d0r09lpd2nd19hlj9ocl@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:53:04 GMT, erwin-w@REMOVETHISshaw.ca (E-man)
> wrote:
>
>>Ye verily, on Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:56:27 +0100, "Lescor"
>><lescor@btinternet.com> did inscribe thusly:
>>> A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
>>>the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
>>>70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
>>>champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.
>>>
>>>It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500
>>>Aus
>>>dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
>>>a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
>>>it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F race
>>>it
>>>ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on the
>>>Ascot first day.
>
> The King's Stand Stakes is a G2

Correct A Typo error. I related the purchase price as I read it
somewhere,
but, as you say, still an amazing bargain




> Btw, his purchase price was $AUS 1,250 (about $900 US), not 500 as
> listed above.... though it's still a great story at that price.

>>>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
>>>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at
>>>33-1
>>>over
>>>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between three,
>>>but
>>>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
>>>about
>>>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
>>>finished
>>>as fresh as paint.
>
> What was also impressive in the Queen Alex was the horse that finished
> 2nd, the favourite, Cover Up (who btw put in a fantastic race, just
> getting caught on the line) was carrying 138lbs.
> You don't see that often in the US.
> I'm so tired of hearing trainers in the US like Bobby Frankel bitch
> and moan if a horse has to carry more than 126lbs.
>
> For those that are intersted, here's a replay of Baddam's races...
>
> Ascot Stakes, 2m4f, 30 runners
> http://play.www.atr.servecast.net/ppv/atr/frameset.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_24_06_1730
>
> Queen Alexandra, 2m5f
> http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo..._06_20_05_1655
>
>
>>>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.
>>
>>THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! We need more such showcases of stamina
>>in North America. I've suggested here before that we need an
>>"endurance series" similar to the Triple Crown and the new Grand Slam
>>of Turf.
>>
>>There was a recent editorial in The Bloodhorse about how this year's
>>Triple Crown race winners all came from staying lines. As if to prove
>>that all is well in the breeding industry - "Nope, we're not breeding
>>for speed/precociousness at the expense of stamina/durability, no sir,
>>nothing to see here, move along...".
>
> In fairness, it's not just the Americans that have gone down the speed
> route. The Aussies, who we all think of as being the great producers
> of distance horses because of the Melbourne Cup etc, have become speed
> obsessed. The richest 2yo race in the world is the Golden Slipper in
> AUS, worth US$2.6mil, and their breeding industry has become obsessed
> with cranking out fast precocious 2yos. Look at a stallion like
> Dehere, a top sprinter in the US, is a big fav at stud down there.
> Actually his stud fee in Aus is 3 times what it is he Kentucky (he
> shuttles for Coolmore).
>
> The Europeans will go the same way too before long. The French Derby
> has already been cut to 10.5 furlongs are there is an obsesssion now
> with dropping Derby winners back to 10f after the derby to "Prove"
> they can win over the American classic distance to improve their stud
> value.
> They top middle distance horse in Europe right now is Shirocco, but he
> is a 12f specialist. If he could win the Eclipse, the Juddmonte, or
> Irish Champion stakes he would be worth 5 times as much at stud.

Not so certain things will go that far in Europe despite that French
decision.
There seems to be growing interest in other, and until recently, neglected
staying bloodlines from Germany and Poland, and to continue to have a
racing calender catering for true stayers. While we have races like the
St Leger (14F) and the Ascot Gold Cup (20F) as Group 1's on the card
the alternatives remain, even though the quality might suffer for a while.

Fact is, the UK and Irish crowds love stayers.

LC















































































26 Jun 2006 14:51:40
Lescor
Re: Royal Ascot


"MMcc" <myemail@myisp.com > wrote in message
news:tvru92ha1knuapie9jdca8i3ahcpdqmqfe@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:19:22 -0500, MmCc <myemail@myisp.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:53:04 GMT, erwin-w@REMOVETHISshaw.ca (E-man)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Ye verily, on Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:56:27 +0100, "Lescor"
>>><lescor@btinternet.com> did inscribe thusly:
>>>> A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
>>>>the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
>>>>70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
>>>>champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.
>>>>
>>>>It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500
>>>>Aus
>>>>dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
>>>>a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
>>>>it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F
>>>>race it
>>>>ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on
>>>>the
>>>>Ascot first day.
>>
>>The King's Stand Stakes is a G2
>>
>>>>It was a popular winner in a close finish over 5F.
>>>>
>>>>He tried for the double on the last day (today) but could only manage
>>>>3rd
>>>>over his better distance of 6F. Went off Fav, but probably too much to
>>>>ask
>>>>in this class after just 4 days rest.
>>>
>>>Still a great story. How could the owner afford to ship the horse
>>>from (almost literally) the far side of the planet?
>>
>>He has won something like $2m in Aus in the last couple of years
>>since they bought him. He is the top sprinter Down Under. It's not
>>like they bought him for cheap and then flew him straight to Ascot.
>>
>>Btw, his purchase price was $AUS 1,250 (about $900 US), not 500 as
>>listed above.... though it's still a great story at that price.
>>
>>
>>>>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
>>>>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at
>>>>33-1
>>>>over
>>>>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between
>>>>three,
>>>>but
>>>>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
>>>>about
>>>>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
>>>>finished
>>>>as fresh as paint.
>>
>>What was also impressive in the Queen Alex was the horse that finished
>>2nd, the favourite, Cover Up (who btw put in a fantastic race, just
>>getting caught on the line) was carrying 138lbs.
>>You don't see that often in the US.
>>I'm so tired of hearing trainers in the US like Bobby Frankel bitch
>>and moan if a horse has to carry more than 126lbs.
>>
>>For those that are intersted, here's a replay of Baddam's races...
>>
>>Ascot Stakes, 2m4f, 30 runners
>>http://play.www.atr.servecast.net/ppv/atr/frameset.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_24_06_1730
>>
>>Queen Alexandra, 2m5f
>>http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo..._06_20_05_1655
>
> Oops, bad link on the last one, here;s the correct link
> http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_20_05_1655
>
> Also I have the races reversed, the first is the Queen Alex, the 2nd
> the Ascot Stakes.
>
>>>>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.



Great links. If the Queen Alex does not stir the blood of a racing
fan....better
see a doctor?

LC






26 Jun 2006 12:26:45
MmCc
Re: Royal Ascot

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:51:40 +0100, "Lescor" <lescor@btinternet.com >
wrote:

>
>"MMcc" <myemail@myisp.com> wrote in message
>news:tvru92ha1knuapie9jdca8i3ahcpdqmqfe@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:19:22 -0500, MmCc <myemail@myisp.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:53:04 GMT, erwin-w@REMOVETHISshaw.ca (E-man)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ye verily, on Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:56:27 +0100, "Lescor"
>>>><lescor@btinternet.com> did inscribe thusly:
>>>>> A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
>>>>>the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
>>>>>70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
>>>>>champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.
>>>>>
>>>>>It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500
>>>>>Aus
>>>>>dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
>>>>>a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
>>>>>it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F
>>>>>race it
>>>>>ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on
>>>>>the
>>>>>Ascot first day.
>>>
>>>The King's Stand Stakes is a G2
>>>
>>>>>It was a popular winner in a close finish over 5F.
>>>>>
>>>>>He tried for the double on the last day (today) but could only manage
>>>>>3rd
>>>>>over his better distance of 6F. Went off Fav, but probably too much to
>>>>>ask
>>>>>in this class after just 4 days rest.
>>>>
>>>>Still a great story. How could the owner afford to ship the horse
>>>>from (almost literally) the far side of the planet?
>>>
>>>He has won something like $2m in Aus in the last couple of years
>>>since they bought him. He is the top sprinter Down Under. It's not
>>>like they bought him for cheap and then flew him straight to Ascot.
>>>
>>>Btw, his purchase price was $AUS 1,250 (about $900 US), not 500 as
>>>listed above.... though it's still a great story at that price.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
>>>>>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at
>>>>>33-1
>>>>>over
>>>>>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between
>>>>>three,
>>>>>but
>>>>>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
>>>>>about
>>>>>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
>>>>>finished
>>>>>as fresh as paint.
>>>
>>>What was also impressive in the Queen Alex was the horse that finished
>>>2nd, the favourite, Cover Up (who btw put in a fantastic race, just
>>>getting caught on the line) was carrying 138lbs.
>>>You don't see that often in the US.
>>>I'm so tired of hearing trainers in the US like Bobby Frankel bitch
>>>and moan if a horse has to carry more than 126lbs.
>>>
>>>For those that are intersted, here's a replay of Baddam's races...
>>>
>>>Ascot Stakes, 2m4f, 30 runners
>>>http://play.www.atr.servecast.net/ppv/atr/frameset.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_24_06_1730
>>>
>>>Queen Alexandra, 2m5f
>>>http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo..._06_20_05_1655
>>
>> Oops, bad link on the last one, here;s the correct link
>> http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_20_05_1655
>>
>> Also I have the races reversed, the first is the Queen Alex, the 2nd
>> the Ascot Stakes.
>>
>>>>>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.
>
>
>
>Great links. If the Queen Alex does not stir the blood of a racing
>fan....better
>see a doctor?

Anyone who says staying races are boring (an opinion that has been
profered on this newsgroup before) needs to take a look at these
races.
Could you ask for a more exciting finish than the Queen A? I'll take
that any day over the boring 6-9f proecessions with horses winning off
the front that make up so many of US races.


26 Jun 2006 12:54:30
MmCc
Re: Royal Ascot

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:39:34 +0100, "Lescor" <lescor@btinternet.com >
wrote:

>
>"MmCc" <myemail@myisp.com> wrote in message
>news:nd7u92l0p77r35d0r09lpd2nd19hlj9ocl@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:53:04 GMT, erwin-w@REMOVETHISshaw.ca (E-man)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Ye verily, on Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:56:27 +0100, "Lescor"
>>><lescor@btinternet.com> did inscribe thusly:
>>>> A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
>>>>the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
>>>>70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
>>>>champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.
>>>>
>>>>It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500
>>>>Aus
>>>>dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
>>>>a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
>>>>it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F race
>>>>it
>>>>ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on the
>>>>Ascot first day.
>>
>> The King's Stand Stakes is a G2
>
>Correct A Typo error. I related the purchase price as I read it
>somewhere,
>but, as you say, still an amazing bargain
>
>
>
>
>> Btw, his purchase price was $AUS 1,250 (about $900 US), not 500 as
>> listed above.... though it's still a great story at that price.
>
>>>>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
>>>>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at
>>>>33-1
>>>>over
>>>>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between three,
>>>>but
>>>>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
>>>>about
>>>>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
>>>>finished
>>>>as fresh as paint.
>>
>> What was also impressive in the Queen Alex was the horse that finished
>> 2nd, the favourite, Cover Up (who btw put in a fantastic race, just
>> getting caught on the line) was carrying 138lbs.
>> You don't see that often in the US.
>> I'm so tired of hearing trainers in the US like Bobby Frankel bitch
>> and moan if a horse has to carry more than 126lbs.
>>
>> For those that are intersted, here's a replay of Baddam's races...
>>
>> Ascot Stakes, 2m4f, 30 runners
>> http://play.www.atr.servecast.net/ppv/atr/frameset.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_24_06_1730
>>
>> Queen Alexandra, 2m5f
>> http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo..._06_20_05_1655
>>
>>
>>>>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.
>>>
>>>THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! We need more such showcases of stamina
>>>in North America. I've suggested here before that we need an
>>>"endurance series" similar to the Triple Crown and the new Grand Slam
>>>of Turf.
>>>
>>>There was a recent editorial in The Bloodhorse about how this year's
>>>Triple Crown race winners all came from staying lines. As if to prove
>>>that all is well in the breeding industry - "Nope, we're not breeding
>>>for speed/precociousness at the expense of stamina/durability, no sir,
>>>nothing to see here, move along...".
>>
>> In fairness, it's not just the Americans that have gone down the speed
>> route. The Aussies, who we all think of as being the great producers
>> of distance horses because of the Melbourne Cup etc, have become speed
>> obsessed. The richest 2yo race in the world is the Golden Slipper in
>> AUS, worth US$2.6mil, and their breeding industry has become obsessed
>> with cranking out fast precocious 2yos. Look at a stallion like
>> Dehere, a top sprinter in the US, is a big fav at stud down there.
>> Actually his stud fee in Aus is 3 times what it is he Kentucky (he
>> shuttles for Coolmore).
>>
>> The Europeans will go the same way too before long. The French Derby
>> has already been cut to 10.5 furlongs are there is an obsesssion now
>> with dropping Derby winners back to 10f after the derby to "Prove"
>> they can win over the American classic distance to improve their stud
>> value.
>> They top middle distance horse in Europe right now is Shirocco, but he
>> is a 12f specialist. If he could win the Eclipse, the Juddmonte, or
>> Irish Champion stakes he would be worth 5 times as much at stud.
>
>Not so certain things will go that far in Europe despite that French
>decision.
>There seems to be growing interest in other, and until recently, neglected
>staying bloodlines from Germany and Poland, and to continue to have a
>racing calender catering for true stayers. While we have races like the
>St Leger (14F) and the Ascot Gold Cup (20F) as Group 1's on the card
>the alternatives remain, even though the quality might suffer for a while.
>
>Fact is, the UK and Irish crowds love stayers.

Fair enough, but there used to be a time when you'd see a Derby winner
in the Ascot Gold Cup, nowadays you don't even see them go the extra 2
furlongs in the St Leger. That race has become the domain of the "2nd
tier" horses. I can't remember the last time a real top middle
distance horse in Europe went long.... I think maybe Bago went in a 1m
6f race in France. But it's more common to now to see them go back in
distance to 10f.
Then there's a whole new niche of 8-10f horses now too like Shamardal
etc. Hell, George Washington will probably never tackle 12f. While
everyone thinks a horse like Westerner is "real trooper", his stud
value pales next to the like of Shamardahl and even George W, even
though he's twice the horse those flash in pans are.

Westerner runs for several seasons, wins the Gold Cup, Prix du Cadran
runs 3rd in the Arc..... and is marketed as a NH stallion by Coolmore
for 6k Euro.

Shamardahl he's fast, but he never runs past 10.5f, and retires half
way through his 3yo season (unsound??).... 40k Euro fee.

What does this say about the market and where breeding is going?


26 Jun 2006 19:46:20
Lescor
Re: Royal Ascot


"MmCc" <myemail@myisp.com > wrote in message
news:r860a29p2qoqueg897dp66e3ffksu2q0op@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:39:34 +0100, "Lescor" <lescor@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"MmCc" <myemail@myisp.com> wrote in message
>>news:nd7u92l0p77r35d0r09lpd2nd19hlj9ocl@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:53:04 GMT, erwin-w@REMOVETHISshaw.ca (E-man)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ye verily, on Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:56:27 +0100, "Lescor"
>>>><lescor@btinternet.com> did inscribe thusly:
>>>>> A great meeting for the opening of the $300 million redevelopment of
>>>>>the Ascot course. An amazing 5 day festival with attendances of around
>>>>>70,000 each day. Great weather, fortunes spent on dresses hats and
>>>>>champagne, all adding up to the greatest racing spectacle in the world.
>>>>>
>>>>>It also had a fairy story. Takeover Target was purchased for only 500
>>>>>Aus
>>>>>dollars because it had bad knees and would never race. It's owner is
>>>>>a cab driver who lives in a caravan or some such mobile home. He put
>>>>>it into training and it did win, in fact it won almost every 5 or 6F
>>>>>race
>>>>>it
>>>>>ran in so he bought it over from Australia for a shot at a Group 1 on
>>>>>the
>>>>>Ascot first day.
>>>
>>> The King's Stand Stakes is a G2
>>
>>Correct A Typo error. I related the purchase price as I read it
>>somewhere,
>>but, as you say, still an amazing bargain
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Btw, his purchase price was $AUS 1,250 (about $900 US), not 500 as
>>> listed above.... though it's still a great story at that price.
>>
>>>>>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
>>>>>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at
>>>>>33-1
>>>>>over
>>>>>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between
>>>>>three,
>>>>>but
>>>>>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
>>>>>about
>>>>>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
>>>>>finished
>>>>>as fresh as paint.
>>>
>>> What was also impressive in the Queen Alex was the horse that finished
>>> 2nd, the favourite, Cover Up (who btw put in a fantastic race, just
>>> getting caught on the line) was carrying 138lbs.
>>> You don't see that often in the US.
>>> I'm so tired of hearing trainers in the US like Bobby Frankel bitch
>>> and moan if a horse has to carry more than 126lbs.
>>>
>>> For those that are intersted, here's a replay of Baddam's races...
>>>
>>> Ascot Stakes, 2m4f, 30 runners
>>> http://play.www.atr.servecast.net/ppv/atr/frameset.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_24_06_1730
>>>
>>> Queen Alexandra, 2m5f
>>> http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo..._06_20_05_1655
>>>
>>>
>>>>>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.
>>>>
>>>>THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! We need more such showcases of stamina
>>>>in North America. I've suggested here before that we need an
>>>>"endurance series" similar to the Triple Crown and the new Grand Slam
>>>>of Turf.
>>>>
>>>>There was a recent editorial in The Bloodhorse about how this year's
>>>>Triple Crown race winners all came from staying lines. As if to prove
>>>>that all is well in the breeding industry - "Nope, we're not breeding
>>>>for speed/precociousness at the expense of stamina/durability, no sir,
>>>>nothing to see here, move along...".
>>>
>>> In fairness, it's not just the Americans that have gone down the speed
>>> route. The Aussies, who we all think of as being the great producers
>>> of distance horses because of the Melbourne Cup etc, have become speed
>>> obsessed. The richest 2yo race in the world is the Golden Slipper in
>>> AUS, worth US$2.6mil, and their breeding industry has become obsessed
>>> with cranking out fast precocious 2yos. Look at a stallion like
>>> Dehere, a top sprinter in the US, is a big fav at stud down there.
>>> Actually his stud fee in Aus is 3 times what it is he Kentucky (he
>>> shuttles for Coolmore).
>>>
>>> The Europeans will go the same way too before long. The French Derby
>>> has already been cut to 10.5 furlongs are there is an obsesssion now
>>> with dropping Derby winners back to 10f after the derby to "Prove"
>>> they can win over the American classic distance to improve their stud
>>> value.
>>> They top middle distance horse in Europe right now is Shirocco, but he
>>> is a 12f specialist. If he could win the Eclipse, the Juddmonte, or
>>> Irish Champion stakes he would be worth 5 times as much at stud.
>>
>>Not so certain things will go that far in Europe despite that French
>>decision.
>>There seems to be growing interest in other, and until recently,
>>neglected
>>staying bloodlines from Germany and Poland, and to continue to have a
>>racing calender catering for true stayers. While we have races like the
>>St Leger (14F) and the Ascot Gold Cup (20F) as Group 1's on the card
>>the alternatives remain, even though the quality might suffer for a while.
>>
>>Fact is, the UK and Irish crowds love stayers.
>
> Fair enough, but there used to be a time when you'd see a Derby winner
> in the Ascot Gold Cup, nowadays you don't even see them go the extra 2
> furlongs in the St Leger. That race has become the domain of the "2nd
> tier" horses. I can't remember the last time a real top middle
> distance horse in Europe went long.... I think maybe Bago went in a 1m
> 6f race in France. But it's more common to now to see them go back in
> distance to 10f.
> Then there's a whole new niche of 8-10f horses now too like Shamardal
> etc. Hell, George Washington will probably never tackle 12f. While
> everyone thinks a horse like Westerner is "real trooper", his stud
> value pales next to the like of Shamardahl and even George W, even
> though he's twice the horse those flash in pans are.
>
> Westerner runs for several seasons, wins the Gold Cup, Prix du Cadran
> runs 3rd in the Arc..... and is marketed as a NH stallion by Coolmore
> for 6k Euro.
>
> Shamardahl he's fast, but he never runs past 10.5f, and retires half
> way through his 3yo season (unsound??).... 40k Euro fee.
>
> What does this say about the market and where breeding is going?


Have to agree. Distances for international races will be set to attract
the maximum interest and it is a trend which influences breeding and
reduces the quality of staying races over time, the Leger being a prime
example. But the worst scenario of all is when these staying races are
dropped to accommodate the less stressful shorter distances and no
staying races, which is typical of the US racing scene right now.

While we still have even just modest handicaps and the more prestigious
Cup races for stayers ,we keep the options alive and we can be pretty
certain
that these will remain in place in the UK and Ireland. A losing battle?
Maybe,
but as long as we retain the opportunities, who knows?

It was no great surprise that Persian Punch was voted the most loved horse
in training in the UK a few years back although never absolute top class.
Simply a reflection of the racing publics affection for brave horses. Long
may
it last.

LC




27 Jun 2006 20:12:40
Re: Royal Ascot


Lescor wrote:
> "MmCc" <myemail@myisp.com> wrote in message
> news:r860a29p2qoqueg897dp66e3ffksu2q0op@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:39:34 +0100, "Lescor" <lescor@btinternet.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"MmCc" <myemail@myisp.com> wrote in message
> >>news:nd7u92l0p77r35d0r09lpd2nd19hlj9ocl@4ax.com...
> >>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:53:04 GMT, erwin-w@REMOVETHISshaw.ca (E-man)
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The King's Stand Stakes is a G2
> >>
> >>Correct A Typo error. I related the purchase price as I read it
> >>somewhere,
> >>but, as you say, still an amazing bargain
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Btw, his purchase price was $AUS 1,250 (about $900 US), not 500 as
> >>> listed above.... though it's still a great story at that price.
> >>
> >>>>>But a far more unlikely double was completed today when Baddam won the
> >>>>>2mile 6F Queen Alexandria Stakes just 4 days after winning easily at
> >>>>>33-1
> >>>>>over
> >>>>>2miles 4F on Tuesday. Closer this time with a close finish between
> >>>>>three,
> >>>>>but
> >>>>>some feat. I Include this nugget as it might answer a recent post here
> >>>>>about
> >>>>>whether horses can race 2 miles. This one raced over 5 in 4 days and
> >>>>>finished
> >>>>>as fresh as paint.
> >>>
> >>> What was also impressive in the Queen Alex was the horse that finished
> >>> 2nd, the favourite, Cover Up (who btw put in a fantastic race, just
> >>> getting caught on the line) was carrying 138lbs.
> >>> You don't see that often in the US.
> >>> I'm so tired of hearing trainers in the US like Bobby Frankel bitch
> >>> and moan if a horse has to carry more than 126lbs.
> >>>
> >>> For those that are intersted, here's a replay of Baddam's races...
> >>>
> >>> Ascot Stakes, 2m4f, 30 runners
> >>> http://play.www.atr.servecast.net/ppv/atr/frameset.asp?va=ASC_2006_06_24_06_1730
> >>>
> >>> Queen Alexandra, 2m5f
> >>> http://www.attheraces.com/WatchVideo..._06_20_05_1655
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>They are amazing animals with great stamina if allowed to show it.
> >>>>
> >>>>THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! We need more such showcases of stamina
> >>>>in North America. I've suggested here before that we need an
> >>>>"endurance series" similar to the Triple Crown and the new Grand Slam
> >>>>of Turf.
> >>>>
> >>>>There was a recent editorial in The Bloodhorse about how this year's
> >>>>Triple Crown race winners all came from staying lines. As if to prove
> >>>>that all is well in the breeding industry - "Nope, we're not breeding
> >>>>for speed/precociousness at the expense of stamina/durability, no sir,
> >>>>nothing to see here, move along...".
> >>>
> >>> In fairness, it's not just the Americans that have gone down the speed
> >>> route. The Aussies, who we all think of as being the great producers
> >>> of distance horses because of the Melbourne Cup etc, have become speed
> >>> obsessed. The richest 2yo race in the world is the Golden Slipper in
> >>> AUS, worth US$2.6mil, and their breeding industry has become obsessed
> >>> with cranking out fast precocious 2yos. Look at a stallion like
> >>> Dehere, a top sprinter in the US, is a big fav at stud down there.
> >>> Actually his stud fee in Aus is 3 times what it is he Kentucky (he
> >>> shuttles for Coolmore).
> >>>
> >>> The Europeans will go the same way too before long. The French Derby
> >>> has already been cut to 10.5 furlongs are there is an obsesssion now
> >>> with dropping Derby winners back to 10f after the derby to "Prove"
> >>> they can win over the American classic distance to improve their stud
> >>> value.
> >>> They top middle distance horse in Europe right now is Shirocco, but he
> >>> is a 12f specialist. If he could win the Eclipse, the Juddmonte, or
> >>> Irish Champion stakes he would be worth 5 times as much at stud.
> >>
> >>Not so certain things will go that far in Europe despite that French
> >>decision.
> >>There seems to be growing interest in other, and until recently,
> >>neglected
> >>staying bloodlines from Germany and Poland, and to continue to have a
> >>racing calender catering for true stayers. While we have races like the
> >>St Leger (14F) and the Ascot Gold Cup (20F) as Group 1's on the card
> >>the alternatives remain, even though the quality might suffer for a while.
> >>
> >>Fact is, the UK and Irish crowds love stayers.
> >
> > Fair enough, but there used to be a time when you'd see a Derby winner
> > in the Ascot Gold Cup, nowadays you don't even see them go the extra 2
> > furlongs in the St Leger. That race has become the domain of the "2nd
> > tier" horses. I can't remember the last time a real top middle
> > distance horse in Europe went long.... I think maybe Bago went in a 1m
> > 6f race in France. But it's more common to now to see them go back in
> > distance to 10f.
> > Then there's a whole new niche of 8-10f horses now too like Shamardal
> > etc. Hell, George Washington will probably never tackle 12f. While
> > everyone thinks a horse like Westerner is "real trooper", his stud
> > value pales next to the like of Shamardahl and even George W, even
> > though he's twice the horse those flash in pans are.
> >
> > Westerner runs for several seasons, wins the Gold Cup, Prix du Cadran
> > runs 3rd in the Arc..... and is marketed as a NH stallion by Coolmore
> > for 6k Euro.
> >
> > Shamardahl he's fast, but he never runs past 10.5f, and retires half
> > way through his 3yo season (unsound??).... 40k Euro fee.
> >
> > What does this say about the market and where breeding is going?
>
>
> Have to agree. Distances for international races will be set to attract
> the maximum interest and it is a trend which influences breeding and
> reduces the quality of staying races over time, the Leger being a prime
> example. But the worst scenario of all is when these staying races are
> dropped to accommodate the less stressful shorter distances and no
> staying races, which is typical of the US racing scene right now.
>
> While we still have even just modest handicaps and the more prestigious
> Cup races for stayers ,we keep the options alive and we can be pretty
> certain
> that these will remain in place in the UK and Ireland. A losing battle?
> Maybe,
> but as long as we retain the opportunities, who knows?
>
> It was no great surprise that Persian Punch was voted the most loved horse
> in training in the UK a few years back although never absolute top class.
> Simply a reflection of the racing publics affection for brave horses. Long
> may
> it last.
>
> LC

Well there is a interesting Japanese 4 yr old colt named Deep Impact
that's going towards the Prix De L' Arc De Triomphe. He's 10 wins out
of 11 races. Only loss was to Heart's Cry a horse that's shown it's
metal in Dubai. He is nicely bred Sunday Silence out of Wind in Her
Hair by Alzao. A KD winner and a Epsom Oaks placed mare.
His most recent race.
http://japanracing.jp/_news2006/060625-01.html

Tom



28 Jun 2006 01:25:44
MMcc
Re: Royal Ascot

On 27 Jun 2006 20:12:40 -0700, tmon6219@mindspring.com wrote:


>> >>
>> >>Fact is, the UK and Irish crowds love stayers.
>> >
>> > Fair enough, but there used to be a time when you'd see a Derby winner
>> > in the Ascot Gold Cup, nowadays you don't even see them go the extra 2
>> > furlongs in the St Leger. That race has become the domain of the "2nd
>> > tier" horses. I can't remember the last time a real top middle
>> > distance horse in Europe went long.... I think maybe Bago went in a 1m
>> > 6f race in France. But it's more common to now to see them go back in
>> > distance to 10f.
>> > Then there's a whole new niche of 8-10f horses now too like Shamardal
>> > etc. Hell, George Washington will probably never tackle 12f. While
>> > everyone thinks a horse like Westerner is "real trooper", his stud
>> > value pales next to the like of Shamardahl and even George W, even
>> > though he's twice the horse those flash in pans are.
>> >
>> > Westerner runs for several seasons, wins the Gold Cup, Prix du Cadran
>> > runs 3rd in the Arc..... and is marketed as a NH stallion by Coolmore
>> > for 6k Euro.
>> >
>> > Shamardahl he's fast, but he never runs past 10.5f, and retires half
>> > way through his 3yo season (unsound??).... 40k Euro fee.
>> >
>> > What does this say about the market and where breeding is going?
>>
>>
>> Have to agree. Distances for international races will be set to attract
>> the maximum interest and it is a trend which influences breeding and
>> reduces the quality of staying races over time, the Leger being a prime
>> example. But the worst scenario of all is when these staying races are
>> dropped to accommodate the less stressful shorter distances and no
>> staying races, which is typical of the US racing scene right now.
>>
>> While we still have even just modest handicaps and the more prestigious
>> Cup races for stayers ,we keep the options alive and we can be pretty
>> certain
>> that these will remain in place in the UK and Ireland. A losing battle?
>> Maybe,
>> but as long as we retain the opportunities, who knows?
>>
>> It was no great surprise that Persian Punch was voted the most loved horse
>> in training in the UK a few years back although never absolute top class.
>> Simply a reflection of the racing publics affection for brave horses. Long
>> may
>> it last.
>>
>> LC
>
>Well there is a interesting Japanese 4 yr old colt named Deep Impact
>that's going towards the Prix De L' Arc De Triomphe. He's 10 wins out
>of 11 races. Only loss was to Heart's Cry a horse that's shown it's
>metal in Dubai. He is nicely bred Sunday Silence out of Wind in Her
>Hair by Alzao. A KD winner and a Epsom Oaks placed mare.
>His most recent race.
>http://japanracing.jp/_news2006/060625-01.html

This fella has the makings of a real great horse. Been keeping my eye
on him for a while. He won the Japanese Triple Crown last year and has
looked very impressive this year.

It's funny you should bring him up, apropos this thread having taken a
twist regarding distance races and the fact that top horses rarely go
longer than 1m4f anymore, because this horse has gone long. His first
race this year was in the Tenno Sho, over 2m, in which I believe he
shaved a couple of seconds off the stakes record.
Nice to see the Japanese at least see the value in that. Of course
with $2.5m in prize money for the Tenno Sho, they sure have plenty of
incentive!

Here are replays of his last two races.
Takarazuka Kinen, 1m3f
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnxGvKlrjXo&search=deep%20impact

Tenno Sho, 2m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bMNwBifRMw&search=deep%20impact

Shaping up to be an interesting Arc this year. Hurricane Run no longer
looks unbeatable, Shirocco looks good, Ouija Board is finding form
again, add in the two Japanese horses and whatever 3 years olds rise
to the surface.