18 Aug 2005 22:05:10
Jo
New Columbia ETX T1 Ball

Has anyone tried this ball yet? It has a new type of coverstock called
'Catalyst™ coverstock' which they claim is the biggest innovation since
reactive resin. True or just ad blitz? There's also the new ball from
Elite Elite Alien that Mark Roth is their spokeperson for but that just
seems like another bigging hooking ball nothing really new in
technology. My quest is to find the biggest 'revving' ball out there but
not one that hooks a lot. I don't need any more hook but could use more
revs. The ball companies have been infatuated by hook the past 10 years
as if that's all that matters. What about evs? If they can design high
tech balls that hook out of the house why can't they design balls that
rev out of the house as well?


18 Aug 2005 20:08:00
Mark
Re: New Columbia ETX T1 Ball

>My quest is to find the biggest 'revving' ball out there but
>not one that hooks a lot.

To what end exactly? "Revs" as a single metric doesn't mean anything
and rev rate needs to be matched to speed in order to maximize carry.
As with everything else in this game it's a lot more useful to learn
how to generate revs, hook and good ball roll by learning to throw the
ball to generate those results than to try and buy it.

The technical answer to your question is overall hook is more a
function of coverstock prep and oil pattern and hook is what people
want to buy because hook is cool. So they buy hook and complain that
there isn't enough oil and that the lanes get burnt out by the third
game - go figure but many bowlers are apparently not too smart. Anyway,
given the major variables and knowing the magority of players see a
house pattern, ball manufacturers can generate overall hook pretty
easily by tweaking coverstocks and coverstocks are not well controlled
by the current regulations. By contrast, how quickly a ball revs up is
mostly related to the RG of the ball and RG is easily measured and the
current specs keep the manufacturers within a fairly narrow range. If
that range were opened up you would see super low RG balls that even
grandma (or Aki) could rev up like Maximum Bob.

As an aside, if you want to look like you have more revs than you do,
look for low RG balls with big logos placed such that they'll be
perpendicular to your low RG spin axis. It's a well known trick in the
biz that using well placed logos can make a fluffer look like he's got
a ton of revs.

Finally, the Low RG Zone-x always struck me as a ball that revved very
quickly and didn't hook that much as the cover was fairly mellow. Same
for some of the Lane#1 balls with the original diamond core that had
early powerkoil coverstocks. I recall my 3D Offset always looked like a
rev monster as well. I don't think any of those would match as well to
the current conditioners as some current pellets but they might fit
what you are looking for.

Good luck in your quest.

MC



19 Aug 2005 19:01:17
Jo
Re: New Columbia ETX T1 Ball

Low RG won't work for me because it revs up too soon and revs out by the
time the ball hits the pins and hits like mush for me. What I need is a
ball that revs up the hardest in the backend instead of hooking in the
backend. I can get plenty of hook out of a ball without even using resin
and hook has never been a problem for me even years ago in the days of
plastic coverstocks. But I've always had a problem getting more then
10-12 revolutions out of a ball. When I'm bowling on an easy lane
condition the ball practically revs up like mad by itself and on a tough
condition I'm down to my average 10-12 revs which doesn't cut it on
today's harder lane conditions. I know lots of guys that can really rev
the hell out of a ball but can't hook it and without the new power balls
of today they'd be all rev and no hook and would suck. Today's balls do
a lot for them but for me the advantage has been minimal as hook is not
my problem but late breaking backend revs are. So I wish the ball
companies or at least one of them would design a ball that doesn't hook
a lot, a control ball, but one that gives you an additional 10-12 revs
in the backend though. Hell if they're going to design late breaking
hook out of the box why not also design revs in the backend out of the
box? I can guarantee that would super charge the bowling ball industry
again the way resin did in the 90's. So basically I'm looking for a
medium to high RG ball that gets lots of additional revs through its
high tech design. If anyone knows of the best ball that comes closest to
that description that's available today let me know! My best ball right
now is my Columbia pearl messenger drilled low flare. It goes really far
down the lane and holds the line better then any of my other balls and
still gives me 10-12 revs midlane to backend but the same reaction with
18-25 revs midlane to backend would be really boss!


Mark wrote:
>
> >My quest is to find the biggest 'revving' ball out there but
> >not one that hooks a lot.
>
> To what end exactly? "Revs" as a single metric doesn't mean anything
> and rev rate needs to be matched to speed in order to maximize carry.
> As with everything else in this game it's a lot more useful to learn
> how to generate revs, hook and good ball roll by learning to throw the
> ball to generate those results than to try and buy it.
>
> The technical answer to your question is overall hook is more a
> function of coverstock prep and oil pattern and hook is what people
> want to buy because hook is cool. So they buy hook and complain that
> there isn't enough oil and that the lanes get burnt out by the third
> game - go figure but many bowlers are apparently not too smart. Anyway,
> given the major variables and knowing the magority of players see a
> house pattern, ball manufacturers can generate overall hook pretty
> easily by tweaking coverstocks and coverstocks are not well controlled
> by the current regulations. By contrast, how quickly a ball revs up is
> mostly related to the RG of the ball and RG is easily measured and the
> current specs keep the manufacturers within a fairly narrow range. If
> that range were opened up you would see super low RG balls that even
> grandma (or Aki) could rev up like Maximum Bob.
>
> As an aside, if you want to look like you have more revs than you do,
> look for low RG balls with big logos placed such that they'll be
> perpendicular to your low RG spin axis. It's a well known trick in the
> biz that using well placed logos can make a fluffer look like he's got
> a ton of revs.
>
> Finally, the Low RG Zone-x always struck me as a ball that revved very
> quickly and didn't hook that much as the cover was fairly mellow. Same
> for some of the Lane#1 balls with the original diamond core that had
> early powerkoil coverstocks. I recall my 3D Offset always looked like a
> rev monster as well. I don't think any of those would match as well to
> the current conditioners as some current pellets but they might fit
> what you are looking for.
>
> Good luck in your quest.
>
> MC


31 Aug 2005 12:57:29
joo
Re: New Columbia ETX T1 Ball

could somebody explain to me what RG is and its relavance to the ball
rev rate? thanks.



01 Sep 2005 23:53:26
Phil Paskos
Re: New Columbia ETX T1 Ball


"joo" <jookim@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1125518249.039941.28100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> could somebody explain to me what RG is and its relavance to the ball
> rev rate? thanks.
>




01 Sep 2005 23:57:31
Phil Paskos
Re: New Columbia ETX T1 Ball

Go to Google or your favorite search engine and look up Ebonite's web site.
They have a very nice listing of all the technical terms describing ball
parameters and good explanations of what they mean.

Phil P
"joo" <jookim@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1125518249.039941.28100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> could somebody explain to me what RG is and its relavance to the ball
> rev rate? thanks.
>




02 Sep 2005 15:37:28
Joe Zachar
Re: New Columbia ETX T1 Ball

The Radius of Gyration (RG) for bowling balls is set by ABC (now USBC)
and is in a range between 2.430 to 2.800 inches. The lower the number
the more center heavy the ball is and the sooner the ball will rev up
(front part of the lane). The higher the RG number the more cover heavy
the ball is and the later the ball will rev up (ball should go longer
before hooking). It is a little confusing because we are not talking
about the total hook of the bowling ball but rather when the ball will
begin to hook. The RG is then divided into 3 ranges, Low 2.430-2.540,
Medium 2.541-2.690, and High RG 2.691-2.800

A bowler's rev rate can be expressed in revolutions per minute (RPM)
which takes a lot of caculations. Or simply count the number of times
the ball revolves from the foul line to the head pin in an average
delivery.

The 2nd caculation will not be as accurate because the lane friction and
the strength of the ball will also effect the caculation. If you use a
plastic ball in the 2nd caculation method it might not be too far off.
A rule of thumb used by Columbia 300 in drilling text is that 14 revs
would be less than 230 rpm; 14-16 revs would be 230-270 rmp; and 17+
revs would be 270 + rpm. Brunswick caculates that most pros on tour are
between 250-450 rpm.

There is a relationship between the RG of the ball and the RPM or revs
you can put on a ball. But you also have other factor that include
your ball speed, axis tilt of the ball at the release point (0 to 90
degrees), the coverstock of the ball (dull or shiny reactive or
particle) lane oil (light, medium, heavy) or where the break point is
on the lane (where on the lane the ball begins to hook towards the pocket).

Example: My ideal ball reaction on medium oil conditions is a ball that
has a breakpoint about 45 feet down the lane. My equipment is set up so
that my "average" ball works on this condition. When there is more oil
on the lane the "average" ball will go longer and maybe begin to hook to
the pocket at 50 feet. At that point I need a stronger ball that will
begin to hook earlier (lower RG than the first ball). The ideal plan is
the have this lower RG ball also hook at 45 feet. on the oilier lane.

If my average ball hooks at 35 to 40 feet on the lane I will need a ball
with more length (higher RG). Again I want to create a reaction that my
ball will find a breakpoint about 45 feet down the lane (my ideal
scoring angle).

You can see I want to have several different balls in my bag. Having
all top of the line Low RG balls that all hook at the same spot on the
lane is not the way to go.

At this point you have to evaluate your game and equipment. Do you have
a plastic spare ball? Do you have a medium RG ball for average
conditions and need a stronger ball like the new Columbia 300 ETX T1
ball, etc.

I hope this will help you.

Joe Z












.

joo wrote:

>could somebody explain to me what RG is and its relavance to the ball
>rev rate? thanks.
>
>
>



04 Sep 2005 20:49:10
joo
Re: New Columbia ETX T1 Ball

excellent. thanks for a detailed reply.